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BS lawsuit #2477979
04/05/18 05:14 PM
04/05/18 05:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
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my own world
theraif Offline OP
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The sport of motorcycle road racing has recently come under fire due to a multi-million-dollar lawsuit filed by an amateur sportbike enthusiast. In March of 2015, Daniel Kim lost control of his bike resulting in a crash that broke his leg. Fast forward to 2018 and the lawsuit is entering the trial phase led by a prestigious San Francisco law firm going after the event promoter among others for an initial $15M in damages for the rider’s broken leg.



How does this concern drag racing? In the eyes of motorsport insurance carriers, subjects like this can blanket multiple genres of motorsports depending on the issue at hand. In this case, the suit specifies negligence on the promoter’s behalf for not “especially repurposing a professional race track for amateurs to ride in a racing fashion.” This example is where similarities to other sports such as dragstrip test & tune nights may come into play.



The key argument predicted for court involves a small sandbag located away from the racing tarmac that the biker came into contact with after losing control of the bike of his own accord. The suit states promoters were negligent for not predicting and revamping the track to accommodate crashing amateur motorcyclists.



Many current motorcycle industry articles attest this suit could potentially wipe out track day operators with rising insurance costs or possibly eliminating their insurability.



To draw a parallel between motorcycle track days and dragstrip street racer/grudge nights is real. A longtime track operator responded to our inquiry and said, “Insurance companies have historically reacted to claim issues and their related rate hikes across different forms of racing. This is a real threat to all amateur racing performed at a so-called professional track.”

Re: BS lawsuit [Re: theraif] #2477992
04/05/18 05:48 PM
04/05/18 05:48 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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Welcome to our litigious society .


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Re: BS lawsuit [Re: theraif] #2477998
04/05/18 06:11 PM
04/05/18 06:11 PM
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Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Offline
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I saw this discussed on a bike site I'm on. The gist of the lawsuit is that the runoff area was full of junk the he hit.


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Re: BS lawsuit [Re: theraif] #2478025
04/05/18 07:49 PM
04/05/18 07:49 PM
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Texas
dannysbee Offline
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A sand bag being used for erosion. If you watch the video he panicked and stood the bike up causing the crash. He broke his leg.....millions of dollars! He and his attorney are slime.


Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
Re: BS lawsuit [Re: theraif] #2478043
04/05/18 08:29 PM
04/05/18 08:29 PM
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New York
polyspheric Offline
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IDT the plaintiff's attorney's moral standing is a question. Both sides are going to say anything to win, since (despite, for example, New York Law) there is no enforcement of the legal requirement that attorneys may not offer frivolous arguments in favor of their client's position.

The plaintiff's attorney is going to claim that the track specifically solicited the attendance of unskilled (and therefore inherently dangerous) riders, who were compelled to sign waivers without physically examining the track, and that ordinary and necessary precautions were not taken.
The track's attorney is going to claim that the track's design and condition was exactly like other tracks, the riders were encouraged to examine the track, that their participation waived objection to the hazards, and the rider brought the sandbag with him (I'm almost kidding).

Not legal advice, just a thought: I have seen drivers/riders sign waivers with this printed under the name: "under protest". Legally it's worthless but it does leave the door open to future claims of objection.

I hope he loses, but it's probable that the track's insurance carrier will settle to avoid a very bad jury verdict ("any attorney who says that he can predict a jury verdict is an idiot").
What I'd like to see is a legal end to the "non-disclosure agreement" (we'll pay you if you don't tell anyone the amount or the terms) if public safety is an issue.


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Re: BS lawsuit [Re: theraif] #2478056
04/05/18 08:47 PM
04/05/18 08:47 PM
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Guitar Jones Offline
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I would like to see an end to all of this. This all started with putting warning labels on everything that might hurt you if you do something stupid. Don't stick hands or feet into running lawn mower! Really? If you are that freekin stupid you deserve what you get. It has taken natural selection out of the picture so now even the stupid survive.

If you sign the waiver you relinquish all rights to sue. If you don't inspect the track or do your due diligence that you agreed to, tough crap. That's all on you dumbazz.


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Re: BS lawsuit [Re: theraif] #2478067
04/05/18 09:00 PM
04/05/18 09:00 PM
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jersey
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Spaceman Spiff Offline
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The name Lori Johns comes to mind.....


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Re: BS lawsuit [Re: theraif] #2478068
04/05/18 09:02 PM
04/05/18 09:02 PM
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Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Offline
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Waivers aren't worth the paper they are written on.


"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
Re: BS lawsuit [Re: Spaceman Spiff] #2478069
04/05/18 09:02 PM
04/05/18 09:02 PM
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Washington
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madscientist Offline
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Originally Posted By Spaceman Spiff
The name Lori Johns comes to mind.....



Haaaaayep. Sure does.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: BS lawsuit [Re: theraif] #2478080
04/05/18 09:35 PM
04/05/18 09:35 PM
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New York
polyspheric Offline
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There is no such thing as an absolute waiver of rights. This includes especially the right to appeal a reduced charge and sentence (you cannot waive Constitutional rights, statutes of limitations, incompetence of your own counsel, or prosecutorial misconduct - these are only some of the most common).
When the prosecutor says this he knows he's lying.
Even worse: he doesn't - lots of idiots out there with law degrees.

In general, if you're at risk (possible tortfeasor), it's better to construct an elaborate waiver with as many provisions and acknowledgments as possible, because it has the effect of frightening the future plaintiff's attorney into accepting less money.
It should be executed by a Notary as an "acknowledgement" (not sworn, not an oath, not an affidavit) similar to a conveyance of real property or a contract.


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Re: BS lawsuit [Re: polyspheric] #2478083
04/05/18 09:44 PM
04/05/18 09:44 PM
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RTSE4ME Offline
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Looks like he lost the lawsuit back in Jan but there is another...
http://www.racer.com/north-american-raci...ycle-rider-suit

Re: BS lawsuit [Re: theraif] #2478125
04/05/18 10:43 PM
04/05/18 10:43 PM
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crackedback Offline
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Ran out of talent.

He got what we used to call target fixation. It's not bad in a car, it's horrible on a motorcycle. On a bike you tend to go where you are looking.

He entered the corner too high or too much speed for his talent level and stood it up. He should have pulled it lower and grabbed some throttle. His left knee position tells me he was out of his comfort zone. Knee on the deck and rolling into the throttle and he rides away from that corner.

According to Kim, avoiding the rider in front of him? The amount of track he had to run on, even if his assertion is true, is comparable to a red carpet. I've come off corners where there would be 4 bikes on that amount of pavement!

This A-hole would have sued because, sans sandbags, the gully would have launched him. No win for the operator or track. Damned if you do, or don't

The guy sucks as a rider period. Blaming someone else for his lack of ability/talent.

Re: BS lawsuit [Re: theraif] #2478167
04/06/18 12:49 AM
04/06/18 12:49 AM
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New York
polyspheric Offline
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"you tend to go where you are looking"


Ah, yes - discovered 1,000 years ago: the trampoline rule (began as the blanket toss among Mongols, American Indians, Cossacks).


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Re: BS lawsuit [Re: polyspheric] #2478172
04/06/18 01:11 AM
04/06/18 01:11 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Originally Posted By polyspheric
"you tend to go where you are looking"
I was taught that in flight training, the hand follows the eye, and the airplane goes where the hands turn it to work
I was also taught in drivers education to look at the right side of the shoulder in front of the car at night to avoid being blinded by the oncoming cars lights on , especially the idiots that drive with the high beams on and won't turn them down runaway


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Re: BS lawsuit [Re: theraif] #2478246
04/06/18 10:23 AM
04/06/18 10:23 AM
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
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Quote:
I was also taught in drivers education to look at the right side of the shoulder in front of the car at night to avoid being blinded by the oncoming cars lights on , especially the idiots that drive with the high beams on and won't turn them down


Me too ... but I bet that's a long forgotten lesson with many folks and new drivers are probably not taught this.

Re: BS lawsuit [Re: polyspheric] #2478306
04/06/18 12:32 PM
04/06/18 12:32 PM
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Rust Belt, SW PA
Silver70 Offline
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Originally Posted By polyspheric
"you tend to go where you are looking"


Ah, yes - discovered 1,000 years ago: the trampoline rule (began as the blanket toss among Mongols, American Indians, Cossacks).


And on a street bike you don't turn with your arms, the bike turns with you as you lean. So this plays into it even more.


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Re: BS lawsuit [Re: Silver70] #2478323
04/06/18 01:29 PM
04/06/18 01:29 PM
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Posts: 26,798
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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You do turn with your arms, it's called counter-steering to induce the lean.


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Re: BS lawsuit [Re: John_Kunkel] #2478327
04/06/18 01:39 PM
04/06/18 01:39 PM
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Washington
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madscientist Offline
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Originally Posted By John_Kunkel
You do turn with your arms, it's called counter-steering to induce the lean.


Yep.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: BS lawsuit [Re: John_Kunkel] #2478357
04/06/18 02:37 PM
04/06/18 02:37 PM
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crackedback Offline
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Originally Posted By John_Kunkel
You do turn with your arms, it's called counter-steering to induce the lean.


Yes,

Want to turn left at speed, push forward on left handlear.

This lawsuit is ridiculous. If it hadn't been the sandbags for erosion, it would have been something else. Apparently he had been about 10 laps into the session as well. He didn't feel threatened by anything for the first 9 laps.

The activity is inherently dangerous. Passing the buck.

Re: BS lawsuit [Re: theraif] #2478361
04/06/18 02:57 PM
04/06/18 02:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582
Rust Belt, SW PA
Silver70 Offline
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Rust Belt, SW PA
Turning on a street bike is nothing like driving a car is my point. Take your hand off the handle bar and lean... what happens? You turn.

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