Re: Dollar for dollar best investment for 650+ HP
[Re: V194]
#2435024
01/15/18 03:22 PM
01/15/18 03:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,481 Outside
thedriver
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,481
Outside
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Gen 3 for sure. Just because you can pick a complete one out of a wrecker and more less supercharge it etc. Look at the ls swaps. Nobody is picking 350’s anymore to hotrod.
1973 challenger Dana. 4 speed. Low deck.
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Re: Dollar for dollar best investment for 650+ HP
[Re: V194]
#2435093
01/15/18 05:37 PM
01/15/18 05:37 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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I don't have the answer. I just started looking into Gen III stuff.
I think if you are working on an older Mopar, Then a stroked big block may be easiest because it will fit the stock K-member. I think either option may be close in a hp per dollar for the engine, with many differences in fitment, accessorys and drive, and fuel system.
If you want modern EFI, coil near plug, serpentine belt drive, with high output alternator, A/C, and power steering, I think starting with the GenIII will save money, but fitting the engine to a old car and the computer/electronics may add to the costs?
A big block with carb, and minimal accessories likely will be less expensive, but converting the old big block to modern accessories and port EFI can be expensive.
In my case, I overspent converting the 505" stroked 440 in the convertible to port EFI and Billet Specialities Tru-Track. The Tru-Track serpentine belt system was over $3,000 plus all the lines, remote reservoir(s), and other stuff likely an additional $500? The Edelbrock XT EFI was about $4,000 and I ended changing out the ECU, fuel pump and such to about all I really used with the intake, TB, and sensors. The total cost got out of control likely an additional $3,000 on top of that for the FAST XFI 2.0, dual sync dist, wiring, EFI fuel tank and such.
On the other hand, I picked up a 80,000 mile 2008 6.1L Hemi with NAG trans off E-Bay for $4,000 with all the accessories, manifolds, stock wiring harness and computer. I think I spent $200 on a new electronic accelerator pedal and transmission shifter. I haven't decided on what to do with the electronics yet as more options are starting to come out. Looking at the Holley Dominator EFI? The conversion K-Members are a bit pricy. The RMS alterKtion K-member / handling suspension kits are around $5,300+ brakes at $700 to $2,000.
Last edited by 451Mopar; 01/15/18 05:45 PM.
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Re: Dollar for dollar best investment for 650+ HP
[Re: GY3]
#2435338
01/16/18 12:29 AM
01/16/18 12:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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I did a mild, street driver 505" 440 for right at $7,500. Molnar crank and rods, Mahle pistons and CNC Stealth heads. It's just under 600 HP but more than enough for the street and a blast at the track!
You save a lot of money if you can build it yourself. That makes a huge difference if you can do your own work. I have to laugh at some of my friends who are mechanics for a living. They seem to be happy being the parts replacing mechanic where they slam parts on cars and make all the money they can but as soon as a real problem job comes in their shop they say.....take it to the dealer. And they pay a machine shop to built their complete eng ??? Why would you have a trade as a mech and pay someone else to build your engine ?? Myself I became a mechanic/tech so I could learn to do everything on a car and I sure as heck did not become a tech for a living to not build my own eng. I can see if your not a tech/mechanic but I do all my own work that I can which is most other then some machine work or head porting which I have done but I am no pro head porter and I now have back problems that mess with bending over a bench. But if your are able to do most or all of your own work you will save a ton of money. I know for my stroker kit , cam , heads and little things I spent at least 7k and that's just parts. If I had payed to have the eng built that's most likely somewhere from $1500 on north. The other question is are you talking naturally aspirated eng or do you plan on a power adder as that makes a big difference. If N/A I think the bigblock B/RB stroker is one of the best bets. But if you are including power adders heck a stock 5.7 to 6.2 Hemi with a supercharger on it should be right there. Or look at what DVW's son (I forgot his handle) has done with a mild 360 and twin turbo's on his 62 Mopar. I don't know how much he has in it but his car runs mid 9's and makes a lot of power. Myself I like the N/A bigblock stroker eng but I grew up in a world where you just did not see power adders that much on muscle cars. But in todays world you can make big power fast with power adders and the new Hemi eng seems to be strong enough to stay together with superchargers slapped on them that are basically stock. Its close without added up all the figures but I would consider just what car and eng combo you like and what you plan to use the car as. Me I love the 60's and 70's muscle cars with naturally aspirated engines and that's the way I would and did go but you should consider what type of car/eng combo you like also. Good luck with it. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 01/16/18 12:30 AM.
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Re: Dollar for dollar best investment for 650+ HP
[Re: V194]
#2435383
01/16/18 01:30 AM
01/16/18 01:30 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134 Lost in Time
Iowan
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134
Lost in Time
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I have a 645 hp 500" 440 that will be street driven, it has iron heads so it has a stout cam and I know it will probably get less than 3 mpg on e-85. This combination has been together for twenty five years but if I was to start from scratch it would be a gen 3 turbo. It would be nice to have more drivability....10 , 15 miles per gallon in addition to more power.
Have a great day Iowan
"obsolete is neat"
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Re: Dollar for dollar best investment for 650+ HP
[Re: Iowan]
#2435404
01/16/18 01:55 AM
01/16/18 01:55 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,890 Pittsburgh,PA
RTSrunner
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,890
Pittsburgh,PA
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I have a 645 hp 500" 440 that will be street driven, it has iron heads so it has a stout cam and I know it will probably get less than 3 mpg on e-85. This combination has been together for twenty five years but if I was to start from scratch it would be a gen 3 turbo. It would be nice to have more drivability....10 , 15 miles per gallon in addition to more power. What iron heads are you running at that power level?
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Re: Dollar for dollar best investment for 650+ HP
[Re: RTSrunner]
#2435454
01/16/18 04:09 AM
01/16/18 04:09 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134 Lost in Time
Iowan
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134
Lost in Time
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I have a 645 hp 500" 440 that will be street driven, it has iron heads so it has a stout cam and I know it will probably get less than 3 mpg on e-85. This combination has been together for twenty five years but if I was to start from scratch it would be a gen 3 turbo. It would be nice to have more drivability....10 , 15 miles per gallon in addition to more power. What iron heads are you running at that power level? An old pair of 915s, 2.18/1.81. 67cc
Have a great day Iowan
"obsolete is neat"
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Re: Dollar for dollar best investment for 650+ HP
[Re: Iowan]
#2435460
01/16/18 04:27 AM
01/16/18 04:27 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,890 Pittsburgh,PA
RTSrunner
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,890
Pittsburgh,PA
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I have a 645 hp 500" 440 that will be street driven, it has iron heads so it has a stout cam and I know it will probably get less than 3 mpg on e-85. This combination has been together for twenty five years but if I was to start from scratch it would be a gen 3 turbo. It would be nice to have more drivability....10 , 15 miles per gallon in addition to more power. What iron heads are you running at that power level? An old pair of 915s, 2.18/1.81. 67cc Nice!
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Re: Dollor for dollar best investment for 650+ HP
[Re: OhioMopar]
#2435965
01/16/18 10:41 PM
01/16/18 10:41 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,611 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,611
Rittman Ohio
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Most likely a B/RB. 650 horespower doesn't really have a low cost option. Lol. Or not one that will live very long! You can build an Indy head stroker for under 10K that will last forever if you do your own assembly carefully. It can be done with a flat tappet cam but a roller would make the 650 number easier and possibly live longer. The roller would probably bump the price over 10K for the package to support the roller. You don't really need external oiling with the correct rod and crank choice so that would save a bunch of dough. Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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