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Re: Is it reall 8to 10K to build a mild 383 bb now a days? [Re: Black 69 Beeper] #2431564
01/09/18 01:03 PM
01/09/18 01:03 PM
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JERSEY
RJS Offline
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Mike contact IDM HEADS and Machine on RT.9 in West Creek NJ 609 978-6411 very reasonable and very meticulous.
They are slammed with work so plan on at least 3-6 months.
They don't have a Dyno but they can bring the engine to a run-in machine if wanted.
Ron

Re: Is it reall 8to 10K to build a mild 383 bb now a days? [Re: RJS] #2431584
01/09/18 01:58 PM
01/09/18 01:58 PM
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California
biggE Offline
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If you are using the original crank, rods and heads it shouldn't be more than 4k, assembled long block, standard type rebuild with forged pistons. That should include a balanced rotating assembly and most all new parts.

Re: Is it reall 8to 10K to build a mild 383 bb now a days? [Re: Black 69 Beeper] #2431588
01/09/18 02:02 PM
01/09/18 02:02 PM
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Oregon
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If the shop is busy then they most likely don't want to mess with a low budget guy project. In my experience the low budget guys are the biggest pain to deal with. They fret over all the little stuff and since they can't afford the good parts you end up with a lower quality build. For example, the low budget guy will want to use $20 head gaskets rather than the $100 gaskets which work. Then they complain about leaks and want the engine torn down for no charge to replace the cheap head gaskets that they insisted on.

So it is very possible that if you went into an engine shop and spent some time talking about how you want it done really cheap that the owner just gave you a high price to get rid of you.

About the only way a low budget guy can get work done for a low cost is to go into a shop and tell the owner "I'm low budget but I"m not a loser. I want it done right but it is going to take me time to pay for this". An approach like that might work but if the shop is busy you might not ever get your job done either.

The other option is to save your money and wait for the next recession to hit. Then you can go in the door with cash in hand and you'll be king of the room.

Re: Is it reall 8to 10K to build a mild 383 bb now a days? [Re: biggE] #2431593
01/09/18 02:08 PM
01/09/18 02:08 PM
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Oregon
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Originally Posted By biggE
If you are using the original crank, rods and heads it shouldn't be more than 4k, assembled long block, standard type rebuild with forged pistons. That should include a balanced rotating assembly and most all new parts.


Maybe, but the issue is that a really busy machine shop would rather use all new parts than rebuild stuff that is 50 years old. SCAT rods are $300 a set and they are ready to go out of the box. It can take most of a day to rebuild a set of factory rods and you might not be able to save them all. Then you're hunting down some replacement rods and nobody is getting paid.

Same thing with heads. Edelbrock heads are $1500 for a set. If the customer says they can't afford that and want their 906 heads rebuilt then you know you are in trouble. Depending on how hard the 906 heads have been treated over the years they might not be easy to fix. New seats, valves, guides, etc. and the bill is over $1500. Plus it takes a few days of labor to do all the work and some hassle cleaning parts and ordering stuff, etc. It is a lot easier to have Summit deliver some Edelbrock heads which you quickly double check to make sure they are in good shape and then bolt them on.

Re: Is it reall 8to 10K to build a mild 383 bb now a days? [Re: Black 69 Beeper] #2431674
01/09/18 04:10 PM
01/09/18 04:10 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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The only real way to "save" any money on these types of jobs is to either find deals on usable "pre-owned" parts, and/or do as much of the assembly work yourself as possible.

I would think you could have a mild streeter 383 short block done for about $3k......put on some stealth/e street heads for under $1100, reuse the stock valvetrain, intake, pan, timing cover, valve covers, etc.......put it all together yourself....... Seems like you could be into it for under $5k.

Where you're located matters as well.
The tri-state area is likely going to be on the high end of the price range......
Other parts of the country where everything just costs less...... It might be $1-2k less for the same job.

I'd also consider a decent used running motor.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Is it reall 8to 10K to build a mild 383 bb now a days? [Re: Black 69 Beeper] #2431677
01/09/18 04:17 PM
01/09/18 04:17 PM
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Keymar, MD
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Since you have a bent rod and need heads, if it were me this is what I would do:

Buy:
Pistons - $500
Rods - $500
Cam - $250
Heads - $1000
Head Bolts $75
Bearings $200
Gaskets $100
Oil Pan w/pickup - $90 (I've had good luck with ones from KMJ Performance)
Water Pump + housing - $99 (440 source)
Machine work - $1000 (Depending on what they charge and how much assembly they do)
Dyno time - $500

That brings in roughly at $4200.

Than if you need an oil pump, timing chain, push rods, rocker arms, distributor, intake, carb, etc.

Re: Is it reall 8to 10K to build a mild 383 bb now a days? [Re: Black 69 Beeper] #2431687
01/09/18 04:56 PM
01/09/18 04:56 PM
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I have used a couple Machine shops around NJ but only one for full engine builds he came highly recommended by a friend that used to work for him. I've been using him for various things for almost 20 years. Back then he told me engine assemble is 1,000. That is measuring every single component, checking all clearances. Some people forget a lot of the little things and think you just slap them together. There is a shop about a mile from me before I started using this guy I went there. he gave me a sheet with his prices for everything, when I looked in the back there were Busch beer cans everywhere. I want to say he was charging 200-250 for assembly. I know people that have had mixed results there. I was just a kid but I couldn't see taking my stuff to machine shop that was a mess and had beer cans everywhere.

Recently I was told full engine assembly is up to 1500, and dyno time is 1,000. I can't see apurging for the dyno time.

Re: Is it reall 8to 10K to build a mild 383 bb now a days? [Re: Black 69 Beeper] #2431689
01/09/18 05:01 PM
01/09/18 05:01 PM
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Lansing, MI
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70 Road Runner 383-4 4 speed FJ5 & black guts
70 Charger R/T 440-4 4 speed FJ5 & white guts
Re: Is it reall 8to 10K to build a mild 383 bb now a days? [Re: Black 69 Beeper] #2431712
01/09/18 06:01 PM
01/09/18 06:01 PM
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new jersey
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Black 69 Beeper Offline OP
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I took the engine to Impluse racing engines in Wall NJ. I'm in Toms River. I had 6K budgeted and the guys at Implulse told me original style connecting rods are no longer around to replace the bent one. something about floating pins and such and I would need to replace the rods and pistons at a cost of $12-$1500 so the logical thing was to go with the 440 source stroker kit being that I still had to have the crank done. I did contact IDM in west creek and have another option available to me. I was just wondering if I was missing something. The only thing I can't and won't do is build a motor. As for the dyno time I figured if its broken in and pre-run it would eliminate possible issues. I'm a body and paint guy and I'll be quite honest, I can't get guys to pay spit for my talents. I do know time isn't free nor is talent.

thumbnail_IMG_1694.jpg
Re: Is it reall 8to 10K to build a mild 383 bb now a days? [Re: Black 69 Beeper] #2431726
01/09/18 06:38 PM
01/09/18 06:38 PM
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Keymar, MD
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I only had 1 engine built for me as it was a ford and I don't know squat about them (It's for the Wife's race car). Guy charged me $500 to assemble + $100 to file fit the rings + $60 to install cam bearings. Gave me a break on the dyno (Charged $400) as I only wanted the cam broken in and did a few pulls to check the Air/Fuel ratio. I have $7800 with dyno time, machine work and all parts in the engine intake to oil pan with EVERYTHING being new, except the water pump. That even included a set of AFR 185 heads ($1650). Motor was a 351W stroked to a 408. I did shop around for deals and got 95% of the parts on my own to try and save a few more bucks.

Re: Is it reall 8to 10K to build a mild 383 bb now a days? [Re: Black 69 Beeper] #2431727
01/09/18 06:38 PM
01/09/18 06:38 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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A few years ago I did a low deck 511 for the FAST class.
Not a high tech "high level" build, but not entry level either.

Ported 906's(way more $$ than RPM heads), roller cam, HS rockers, reworked stock intake, etc......... That motor was about $11k, dyno tested and ready to install.
It would probably cost about $1500-2000 more today.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Is it reall 8to 10K to build a mild 383 bb now a days? [Re: Black 69 Beeper] #2431743
01/09/18 07:01 PM
01/09/18 07:01 PM
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Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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Depends on the power and parts used, but if you are looking at a roller valvetrain (cam, lifters, rocker arms, timing set, oil pump drive, custom thick wall pushrods) it gets expensive fast. That is if you use heads that already have the correct valve springs, retainers, locks, and locators.
What I am getting at is the valve train parts likely will be more expensive than the stroker kit.

If a mild build with flat tappet cam, then the valve train cost gets less expensive.

Plus, if your having the machine shop build and dynotest the engine, that is likely to be $1,000 added to the total?

Re: Is it reall 8to 10K to build a mild 383 bb now a days? [Re: Black 69 Beeper] #2431759
01/09/18 07:19 PM
01/09/18 07:19 PM
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Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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My take on the stroker kit, is that they are a good deal if building a high HP engine. All new higher strength parts than stock, plus comes with the bearings and piston rings. After cleaning and checking the kit, it should be good to assemble with minimal issues. You save some machine costs of not having to re-conditioning the stock crank and rods.

On the other hand, if the build is really mild, near stock, you don't have to go stroker. What is the goal of the build?

Re: Is it reall 8to 10K to build a mild 383 bb now a days? [Re: Black 69 Beeper] #2431763
01/09/18 07:30 PM
01/09/18 07:30 PM
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A dyno test isn’t helping that price. Years ago I was quoted 800 bucks for break in, basic tuning adjustment pulls, and a small number of power pulls after that. That was years ago. So I wouldn’t be surprised if things got more in line with expectations if you cut that.


I want my fair share
Re: Is it reall 8to 10K to build a mild 383 bb now a days? [Re: Black 69 Beeper] #2431764
01/09/18 07:31 PM
01/09/18 07:31 PM
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I guess we all forget how hard and long we could get a stock replacement piston/turned oem crank/valve job/cam lifters type build to last. 40-60k miles and not break the bank.

A good local napa machine shop can do better then oem work.

You could find a good core motor at a fair price.

My local napa does very good machine work and since they dont have a three letter name or race or performance on the building the same quality of work is about half of the "performance" shops.

How many miles do you figure on putting on the car in a year?


Re: Is it reall 8to 10K to build a mild 383 bb now a days? [Re: Black 69 Beeper] #2431772
01/09/18 07:47 PM
01/09/18 07:47 PM
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Ok so you spoke to IDM how did that go??
I built my stroker 400 with them. The IDM bill was under $1800 and the 440 Source bill was around $3600 with Stealth heads.
IDM: had to Clean/Sonic/Mag/Bore(with plates)/Line Hone/Deck Block, chase all holes etc... Since I don't buzz this motor I used stock caps but all new ARP hardware. They magnifluxed all the new parts, measured all the new parts and assembled them. We did the same with the new heads and changed the springs and retainers. They degreed the cam and got the compression to 10.5.
I had tins cleaned there and they assembled the longblock due to my injuries. They were and are good guys. I stop in all the time doing one thing or another there. Hope this helps.
Ron

Re: Is it reall 8to 10K to build a mild 383 bb now a days? [Re: Black 69 Beeper] #2431851
01/09/18 10:01 PM
01/09/18 10:01 PM
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Way North Idaho
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Way North Idaho
Originally Posted By Black 69 Beeper
Thing is I just want a fairly stock 383. Its a 4 speed, factory exhaust manifolds, and I have to run the factory intake to clear the air grabber. I'm not looking for a speed demon. All I wanted was a 383-4 speed-3:55 posi car. original equipment.


Brand new factory rods $50 shipped:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Mopar-1958-78-Plymouth-Dodge-Desoto-Chrysler-350-361-383-400-Connecting-Rod/401426733794?epid=1991088817&hash=item5d76e5dae2:g:EzAAAOSwh2RZ6M3h&vxp=mtr

So you machinist's claim that they are hard to come by is incorrect.

Ditto for used factory heads, check moparts classifieds, fleabay, craigslist, etc.

Find another builder.



'68 Bee 383/TF/Factory Air...high school sweetheart
'67 GTX Clone project,500 six pack,Hemi4-speed,Dana
05 Dodge Viper, 505 V-10, 6-speed Tremec
Re: Is it reall 8to 10K to build a mild 383 bb now a days? [Re: Black 69 Beeper] #2431861
01/09/18 10:15 PM
01/09/18 10:15 PM
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Harriman NY
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I have plenty of 383 rods you could have.

Re: Is it reall 8to 10K to build a mild 383 bb now a days? [Re: Black 69 Beeper] #2431867
01/09/18 10:20 PM
01/09/18 10:20 PM
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Michigan
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Too bad you live so far away, I wouldn't mind putting another big block together (its been a while) last few I have done were small blocks. If you want mostly stock, other than the heads it should be cheap for parts, seems nowadays big shops just want you to buy a bunch of new parts to save them time at your expense.

Re: Is it reall 8to 10K to build a mild 383 bb now a days? [Re: AndyF] #2431904
01/09/18 11:06 PM
01/09/18 11:06 PM
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Prospect, PA
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Originally Posted By AndyF
If the shop is busy then they most likely don't want to mess with a low budget guy project. In my experience the low budget guys are the biggest pain to deal with. They fret over all the little stuff and since they can't afford the good parts you end up with a lower quality build. For example, the low budget guy will want to use $20 head gaskets rather than the $100 gaskets which work. Then they complain about leaks and want the engine torn down for no charge to replace the cheap head gaskets that they insisted on.

So it is very possible that if you went into an engine shop and spent some time talking about how you want it done really cheap that the owner just gave you a high price to get rid of you.

About the only way a low budget guy can get work done for a low cost is to go into a shop and tell the owner "I'm low budget but I"m not a loser.



This is so spot on. My builder will do anything I want. This is because I've built a relationship with him and he trusts me. He knows that I wont screw him, and that I will take full responsibility for my decisions/directives on things that are not perfect, at least by today's standards. I'll take what others would see as some risk in a build.

I can easily get done what you want for less than 5K, including aftermarket heads, and it will run strong and last forever. But if the shop is good and they don't know you from Adam, they just cannot risk you coming back on them. They have to do it "right" by today's standards.

That first shop you went to, they don't want your business.


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