Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu
[Re: dfixer]
#2428085
01/03/18 12:46 AM
01/03/18 12:46 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Welcome aboard. pull the yellow wire off of the starter relay to disable the starter & have a helper hold the key to "start" & see if the coil positive primary terminal/blue/yellow ECU terminal are hot (& near batt voltage) then have him release the key to "run" & see if they are still hot. seperate/reconnect the ECU pentastar connector/dist pickup zigzag connector & firewall bulkhead. Ohm the dist pickup for ohm amount/continuity. the coil positive primary should have more voltage than the coil negative primary terminal. How did you wire it up? this'll get us started. EDIT with a bit more thinking, you might be wired right ex the coil is backwards & it was OK when warmer but not when it got real cold OR the ECU mighta failed (it wouldn't be orange in color would it!). Ohm the ballast too but for that potential that would be a "run" side issue with maybe a hint of starting on the "crank" side till you let off the key & it goes back to the run "ballast" side.
Last edited by RapidRobert; 01/03/18 01:21 AM. Reason: bored
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Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2428506
01/03/18 09:37 PM
01/03/18 09:37 PM
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To the best of my ability and understanding, here are the answers to the questions Rapid Robert asked me to check on: 1. With the pentastar connected key in start, on positive post I read 7.56 2. With the pentastar connected key in start, on negative post I read 3.65 3. With the pentastar disconnected key in start, on positive post I read 11.35 4. With the pentastar disconnected key in start, on negative post I read 11.35 5. With the pentastar connected key in run, on positive post I read 7.46 6. With the pentastar connected key in run, on negative post I read 3.92 7. With the pentastar disconnected key in run, on positive post I read 11.39 8. With the pentastar disconnected key in run, on negative post I read 11.39 9. The dist. pickup does have continuity and reads 250 ohms 10. Yes the ECU is "Halloween pumpkin" orange 11. The ballast resistor reads 1.3 ohms Just as reference, the battery voltage reads 12.10 Something I didn't mention yesterday is that I put in new plugs and wires the month before I did the conversion and I put in a new ignition coil at the same time as I did the conversion. Thanks again
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Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu
[Re: dfixer]
#2428539
01/03/18 10:35 PM
01/03/18 10:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Check the reluctor gap (takes 5 seconds) . seperate the dist pickup zigzag connector & drag the male (bare) tip of the body harness half of that connector across the intake surface (ground) as you hold the end of the large coil to dist coil wire 1/4" from the intake (ground) with key "on" & key to "crank" with starter relay unplugged (yellow "ign" wire) see if the coil wire sparks. I dont think it will as I think the box has died but it is an easy check. Take all the wires off of the coil negative primary terminal (might just be one) & with a jumper wire with alligator clips on each end, connect one end to the coil neg terminal and tap tap the other alligator clip end to the intake & see if it makes the coil wire spark (in run & in crank, same deal there). I'm assuming the blue/yellow (ECU main feed) is hot also (I mighta missed that). It sounds like the infamous orange box has died. though I dont suggest shotgunning parts for diagnosing, I think I would get a cheap parts house 4 pin replacement & if it turns out that that ain't it, with the newer orange boxes' rep I would highly suggest a spare 4 pin ECU in the glove box.
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Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2428646
01/04/18 01:10 AM
01/04/18 01:10 AM
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It sure seems to me that it is pointing to a defective ECU. However, once again night has overtaken me and we are headed back down into the 20's, so I will get the answers to your questions tomorrow. Following the instructions that came with the conversion kit, I did check the reluctor gap when I took the new distributor out of the box. It was no where near where it was suppose to be and with a brass feeler gauge I set it to .008 of an inch, as instructed. Of course it could have moved, so I will check it again tomorrow. Following my Chrysler service manual, I did try to get a spark out of the coil wire by momentary taps with a test lead on the negative post to ground with the coil wire 1/4 inch from ground, but it didn't call for me to remove the black/yellow wire from the negative post (the only wire on the negative post) and it only had me try it with the switch in the run position; nor did it have me try it with the zigzag connector. In every instance, with and without the harness connected, I never got a spark. Just to be sure, I will try everything you ask tomorrow. My question now is about the, as you said, ". . .infamous orange box." I am guessing the use of "infamous" in this instance is not a good thing. I know about carrying a spare part in the glove box. I also drive a '67 Corvair and never leave home without a spare belt and clutch cable. But I also know, with my luck, I will have just cut my hand off on the table saw and need to rush myself to the ER when the 5th Ave. will give me another no start. So are there better, more reliable boxes? I don't have to tear this conversion apart to send it in just to have them send me another orange box? Thanks
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Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu
[Re: dfixer]
#2428793
01/04/18 12:15 PM
01/04/18 12:15 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Actually if you pull the pentastar connector off of the ECU yes you dont have to take off the black/yellow wire from the coil neg primary post, just pull the coil wire out of the dist cap terminal & make/break jumping the coil neg primary terminal to ground with a jumper & see if the coil wire held 1/4 from ground makes sparks & I would do it in run and in crank. if it sparks then that tells you all is good ex for either the ECU, the dist, their respective wiring. then plug everything back in & drag the pickup body half male metal tip across the intake metal surface & same deal, see if the coil wire sparks in run and in crank & in fact I would do that first & if it sparks then the dist pickup is the issue but with you showing continuity on it I don't think it is the pickup but it is an easy first test (& yes this ain't a "factory" procedure) but it is safe/effective. The newer orange boxes do have a higher failure rate than the old ones did but we are the fixit dept so we (mostly) do get bad news here & it did run so it is wired right so K.I.S.S. (keep it simple sam) does point to the ECU as the culprit. & make sure the ECU is grounded well.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2429181
01/04/18 09:35 PM
01/04/18 09:35 PM
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You gave me a list of things to try last night in you post at 7:35 PM, and of course, as I said, I would try them today in the daylight. This morning at 9:15 AM, you gave me pretty much the same list but letting me know with the pentastar connector off I did not have to pull the negative lead off the coil. I made a copy of those things to try and went down to the car. With the pentastar connector already off I tried the first set of questions. With the jumper on the coil negative post and first key in run then start position I got no spark from the coil wire dist connector at 1/4 inch from ground. Hooked everything up, pulled the zigzag connector apart, key in run then start and there was my spark at the coil wire end and your post said,". . .if it sparks then the dist pickup is the issue but with you showing continuity on it I don't think it is the pickup. . ." I thought WOW! I was so sure everything was pointing to the ECU. But then I thought back to the opening sentence on your post from last night, "Check the reluctor gap (takes 5 seconds)." For me, crawling back there takes more than 5 seconds, but sure enough, the gap was just about as bad as when I took the dist out of the box. I set it back to .008, put the cap on, plugged everything back together and it is running great again! I know when I tightened that screw the first time I did so till it felt like I might cam out the head and I did the same thing today. As I said earlier, I have a Corvair, actually two, so I have had lots of time under a dist cap and don't recall having a plate move out like that. Maybe I just didn't get it tight enough; it may happen again. But it is running once again (I did charge the battery up) and I sure appreciate everyone's help. I do have one small question. It looks like the pentastar connector and its mating jack are designed to have a screw down through the center to keep them from separating. I know there wasn't one in the hardware package in the kit, just wondered if it is suppose to have one. Thanks again
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Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu
[Re: dfixer]
#2429185
01/04/18 09:53 PM
01/04/18 09:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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"Check the reluctor gap (takes 5 seconds)." For me, crawling back there takes more than 5 seconds. On the screw down thru the center I know there wasn't one in the hardware package in the kit, just wondered if it is suppose to have one. Thanks again When you get up in your 60's you will be able to slide in & out of there like a ninja in 5 seconds (or less). That screw is a preventative piece but I cannot say I have ever seen one come off of there. it is a weird thread count (iirc) but I'm sure your hardware store could fix you up. EDIT The coil would have to have sparked with you making/breaking jumping the neg primary post to ground. definitely check the plate lockdown screw cuz if it loosened once likely it will do it again cuz you tightened it up good both times. You might have to tap a new hole or possibly jam a slightly larger screw in there till it gets secure.
Last edited by RapidRobert; 01/04/18 09:59 PM.
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Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2429343
01/05/18 05:59 AM
01/05/18 05:59 AM
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"When you get up in your 60's. . ." Are you kidding me? I am so far past those years, I can't remember whether they were fun or not. I am still puzzled by not getting a spark when using that negative post troubleshooting. I had run that test so many times with the same result, I was almost happy to see it spark when using the zigzag connector method. As much as I wanted it to spark, tried to get it to spark and all those times not once did I see a spark; but the first time with the zigzag, there it was. It just concerns me that somehow I might still have something not quite right. I am equally worried about that screw holding the pickup coil in adjustment. Both times I feel like I tightened it down as far as I could go without making the head of the screw look like one of those security screws used on urinal petitions in guys' restrooms. Like you, I am thinking I may have to change that screw out for something more substantial. But for now I will concentrate on getting it all put back together, re-dressing all the wires, order a spare ECU for the glovebox but most of all, enjoy driving my 5th Avenue that has been given a new lease on life(that I hope will last longer than a month this time). Again, thanks all of you for your help, especially your patience Rapid Robert. . .couldn't have done it without you.
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Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu
[Re: dfixer]
#2429678
01/05/18 11:22 PM
01/05/18 11:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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MoparX thank you for the kind words. dfixer, Here I thought I was talking with a YOUNG man!. If it runs it is wired OK (in this case). For future (diagnosing) reference, (1) with all (can be just one like yours) wires off of the coil neg primary terminal terminal (2) key (A) on or (B) key to crank (3) tap tap the jumper wire you use, to ground (4) the coil wire end 1/4" from ground will/must spark if the coil is good & it is being fed (& it is in this case). the pickup zigzag connector you can get by with just dragging it across the intake surface to make/break contact. IIRC the screw is an 8-32, 3/16 long & if you have to redo the threads I would remove the center clip the pull the reluctor up & off the shaft WHILE pressing down on the shaft so the shaft/slotted plate does not come up off of the pins, then you can undo everything & seperate the 2 plates to drill/tap the hole in the upper plate (if needed).
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu
[Re: dfixer]
#2430233
01/06/18 11:16 PM
01/06/18 11:16 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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I promise, first when the time comes, lets see if it sparking at the plug wires when someone cranks it.
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Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu
[Re: dfixer]
#2430614
01/07/18 05:44 PM
01/07/18 05:44 PM
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There is no spark at plug wire #1. Pulled the wire off that spark plug, put in one of the old ones I just replaced (which really wasn't that worn), pushed it against the intake and my assistant cranked the engine. I moved the plug some on the intake to be sure it was making good contact but still no spark. Just for info, I looked back over my maintenance records for this year and in addition to this conversion kit, I have changed the plugs, plug wires, cap and rotor (which were replaced with the cap and rotor in the kit), windshield wiper bushings, alternator, fuel pump, fuel filter, of course oil and filter, air filter, belts and hoses, carburetor repair kit, exhaust & emission control duct hose and fresh air intake hose. I retired in November of 2016, and wanted to get it ready to go the rest of the way with me (my sister and brother-in-law bought it new in '84 - I bought it from them in mid 1995). What would you like for me to try next?
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Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu
[Re: dfixer]
#2430651
01/07/18 06:59 PM
01/07/18 06:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Lets go thru our std tests. disable the starter. drag the zigzag dist pickup connector on the intake & see if the coil wire sparks in run and in crank. if it does not spark then we'll jump the coil neg primary terminal to ground (tap tap tap) & see if the coil wire sparks in run & in crank (& it will clarify that test for us cuz with it running it had to have sparked). If dragging the zigzag connector does NOT spark the coil wire then we'll attack the dist. this'll get us started.
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