they were not "finished" when they left for Clairpointe, therefore NO door sticker - YET

Dan that's a GREAT example of how that FMVSS label works!!!!! You are amazing!!

MikeR

Throwing superbirds in to this topic might create a bit of confusion since they all had B30 as their SPD on the fendertag
even though they were built in October November and December .
Much like the 69 1/2 A12 cars all had only two SPDs on their fender tags

Greg

Not really as it shows the FMVSS Federal safety label did not get issued or applied until all of the mandatory safety items were installed, whether they were installed after the main assembly line by a contracted company or safety components were delayed by a vendor or function failure/quality issue.

If the dated coded FMVSS label would have been a 1969 required label and my '69 GTX with a C16 - Dec 16th 1968 SPD would have been built on schedule C13 but the head restraints ("headrests") were delayed, the car would have put off to the side until the arrival of the head restraints. If they arrived before the end of December 1968 it would not have been an issues and they could have shipped the car maybe even without them and sent them to the dealer. But as of January 1, 1969 is was a mandatory Federal law that they had to leave Chrysler's manufacturing facility and control with ALL of the mandatory safety items in place or be fined for non-compliance. That dated FMVSS label was an admission and legal statement by the manufacture of compliance with the Federal Law and not to be taken lightly. Any deaths or injuries with any missing safety components that were not installed are big problems even then as today. That label still exists to this day and ECS makes good money supplying legal reproduction FMVSS labels with the CORRECT DATE OF MANUFACTURE. It's as important as a VIN plate or Emission VECI label, (DAMHIK)

MikeR

Holy Cow! Woke up to a wealth of information! Thanks Guys!!! I will get the wiper motor number, K-frame number, and steering box number.


Where is the EXACT location where the FMVSS label should be placed?

Jeff

Jeff

Since my car is very close to yours I can get you a photo if you don't mind waiting until tomorrow.

Morty

right around here another 929-SPD "SIX PACK BEE" built a couple days after yours (2 weeks + LATE)

Cool!! Thanks Dan! Looks like October it is.

Sure... Thanks Morty

The steering box is super greasy I have to clean it up. The wiper motor is 2659-S, and the k-frame is 2729-1.

Here are the manual steering box numbers 2537349-2.

And stamped on the to is E06024G.

Can anyone decipher these and validate that the steering box is from my car?

272 9 = 9/29/69

265 9 = 9/22/69

Thankfully I don't have to deal with this nonsense as my grandfathers car was built in 68 for the 69 model year. Since I had to call up ECS yesterday to order some more stuff, I had Charlie put me in contact with Dave there since he does the VIN stickers to see what he said being he does this for a living.

Here is what he had to say about it......He got a chuckle at the direction this talk was headed. He said the date listed on the tag had more to do with NHST 49 CFR 567 - certification and US Law. He said you guys try to define your entire research with Chrysler related parts and internal certification and it really has nothing to do with the standards set by the factory. Every manufacturer has to comply with the standards set by the SAE & NHTSA requirements. (hope I got that alphabet soup in the right order) You have to know use the DMV & SAE Laws in conjunction with factory protocol otherwise you're just guessing.

Like I said, either way it doesn't matter to me as it does not apply to my vehicle since my car was exempt from this standard so I have no dog in the fight but it was nice to get the inside scoop on how the stuff was done.

Dave is not fully correct or you may have misquoted what Dave said, Dave is rarely if ever incorrect. As for your '68 build '69 model the main difference with the label is the label wording and requirement of the date "IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF MANUFACTURE SHOWN ABOVE". The 1966 mandated Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards had a multiple year phase-in period that for the most part concluded with the 1970 model "year" vehicles. As you can see from a 1968 model year Monroney Label/"Window Sticker" the NHTSA FMVSS components and vehicle design were starting to be put in place or complied with. This '68 / '69 model YEAR FMVSS label is the predecessor to the '70 onward label that is still used to this day........less the date. And "IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF MANUFACTURE SHOWN ABOVE" means when the vehicle is complete. An example of how the "date of manufacture" would have had a bearing on a safety item had it been in place for your '68 build '69 model would have been the FMVSS head "restraint" requirement as of January 1, 1969. Had your car been delayed to being COMPLETED on the '68 Scheduled Production Date and finalized on or after January 1, 1969 your car for sure would have had to have the mandatory head restraints (aka headrests) even if the broadcast sheet didn't call for them. The FMVSS door label on the '70 model year vehicles was one of if not the final label to go on the car when the car was actually complete. Don't mess with the Feds DAMHIK

It doesn't seem that DaveW actually read this thread? Did he? No one here is actually trying to pinpoint the date on the label but trying to help a member to not put a date on it that is so far off of what it might be. Chrysler as manufactures to this day build vehicles on what was the "JIT" method or deliveries of components to the assembly line "Just in Time" for production as we all know. If the majority of the date coded components are within line of the member's SPD for his car then it narrows the window of what that label's date MIGHT be. There is little chance that the label's date would be months or even one month before the majority original component date codes and Scheduled Production Date. Dave would or might even ask a customer that does not know the actual date some of the very same questions as being asked here. Dave now has the advantage of current computer based documentation and support of the manufactures and NHSTA on exact production dates per the VIN that he can reproduce his excellent current labels correctly. I'm not betting that Dave has read this thread and really knows what is being discussed.

MikeR

It seems that the dated parts of a car have nothing to do when the decal was affixed to the door. I have heard of where cars have been held on the line because they had an electric top installed or door glass broke and the car didn't get the VIN placed on it until it was ready to leave the Factory. This thread seems like people were trying to use dated parts to determine when a VIN label would have a date printed and the has nothing to do with anything. My grandfathers car has parts that were dated 7 months before the car left the line which would have no impact on the time frame that the VIN label was affixed to his car, should his car been applicable to receiving the VIN sticker. From what I am gathering, the label was about the last thing to go on the car after it was complete and didn't go on until it was ready to leave the plant and be shipped.

A couple searches on the internet found this.......(no, I didn't write it all out.... just copied and pasted for everyones reading pleasure)

§ 567.4 Requirements for manufacturers of motor vehicles.
(a) Each manufacturer of motor vehicles (except vehicles manufactured in two or more stages) shall affix to each vehicle a label, of the type and in the manner described below, containing the statements specified in paragraph (g) of this section.
(b) The label shall be riveted or permanently affixed in such a manner that it cannot be removed without destroying or defacing it.
(c) Except for trailers and motorcycles, the label shall be affixed to either the hinge pillar, door-latch post, or the door edge that meets the door-latch post, next to the driver's seating position, or if none of these locations is practicable, to the left side of the instrument panel. If that location is also not practicable, the label shall be affixed to the inward-facing surface of the door next to the driver's seating position. If none of the preceding locations is practicable, notification of that fact, together with drawings or photographs showing a suggested alternate location in the same general area, shall be submitted for approval to the Administrator, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Washington, D.C. 20590. The location of the label shall be such that it is easily readable without moving any part of the vehicle except an outer door.
(d) The label for trailers shall be affixed to a location on the forward half of the left side, such that it is easily readable from outside the vehicle without moving any part of the vehicle.
(e) The label for motorcycles shall be affixed to a permanent member of the vehicle as close as is practicable to the intersection of the steering post with the handle bars, in a location such that it is easily readable without moving any part of the vehicle except the steering system.
(f) The lettering on the label shall be of a color that contrasts with the background of the label.
(g) The label shall contain the following statements, in the English language, lettered in block capitals and numerals not less than three thirty-seconds of an inch high, in the order shown:
(1) Name of manufacturer: Except as provided in paragraphs (g)(1)(i), (ii) and (iii) of this section, the full corporate or individual name of the actual assembler of the vehicle shall be spelled out, except that such abbreviations as “Co.” or “Inc.” and their foreign equivalents, and the first and middle initials of individuals, may be used. The name of the manufacturer shall be preceded by the words “Manufactured By” or “Mfd By.” In the case of imported vehicles to which the label required by this section is affixed by the Registered Importer, the name of the Registered Importer shall also be placed on the label in the manner described in this paragraph, directly below the name of the actual assembler.
(i) If a vehicle is assembled by a corporation that is controlled by another corporation that assumes responsibility for conformity with the standards, the name of the controlling corporation may be used.
(ii) If a vehicle is fabricated and delivered in complete but unassembled form, such that it is designed to be assembled without special machinery or tools, the fabricator of the vehicle may affix the label and name itself as the manufacturer for the purposes of this section.
(iii) If a trailer is sold by a person who is not its manufacturer, but who is engaged in the manufacture of trailers and assumes legal responsibility for all duties and liabilities imposed by the Act with respect to that trailer, the name of that person may appear on the label as the manufacturer. In such a case the name shall be preceded by the words “Responsible Manufacturer” or “Resp Mfr.”
(2) Month and year of manufacture: This shall be the time during which work was completed at the place of main assembly of the vehicle. It may be spelled out, as “June 2000”, or expressed in numerals, as “6/00”.
(3) “Gross Vehicle Weight Rating” or “GVWR” followed by the appropriate value in pounds, which shall not be less than the sum of the unloaded vehicle weight, rated cargo load, and 150 pounds times the number of the vehicle's designated seating positions. However, for school buses the minimum occupant weight allowance shall be 120 pounds per passenger and 150 pounds for the driver.
(4) “Gross Axle Weight Rating” or “GAWR,” followed by the appropriate value in pounds, for each axle, identified in order from front to rear (e.g., front, first intermediate, second intermediate, rear). The ratings for any consecutive axles having identical gross axle weight ratings when equipped with tires having the same tire size designation may, at the option of the manufacturer, be stated as a single value, with the label indicating to which axles the ratings apply.
Examples of combined ratings:
GAWR:
(a) All axles - 2,400 kg (5,290 lb) with LT245/75R16(E) tires.
(b) Front - 5,215 kg (11,500 lb) with 295/75R22.5(G) tires.
First intermediate to rear - 9,070 kg (20,000 lb) with 295/75R22.5(G) tires.
(5) One of the following statements, as appropriate:
(i) For passenger cars, the statement: “This vehicle conforms to all applicable Federal motor vehicle safety, bumper, and theft prevention standards in effect on the date of manufacture shown above.” The expression “U.S.” or “U.S.A.” may be inserted before the word “Federal”.
(ii) In the case of multipurpose passenger vehicles (MPVs) and trucks with a GVWR of 6,000 pounds or less, the statement: “This vehicle conforms to all applicable Federal motor vehicle safety and theft prevention standards in effect on the date of manufacture shown above.” The expression “U.S.” or “U.S.A.” may be inserted before the (word “Federal”).
(iii) In the case of multipurpose passenger vehicles (MPVs) and trucks with a GVWR of over 6,000 pounds, the statement: “This vehicle conforms to all applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards in effect on the date of manufacture shown above.” The expression “U.S.” or “U.S.A.” may be inserted before the word “Federal”.
(iv) For all other vehicles, the statement: “This vehicle conforms to all applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards in effect on the date of manufacture shown above.” The expression “U.S.” or “U.S.A.” may be inserted before the word “Federal”.
(6) Vehicle identification number.
(7) The type classification of the vehicle as defined in § 571.3 of this chapter (e.g., truck, MPV, bus, trailer).
(h)Multiple GVWR-GAWR ratings.
(1) (For passenger cars only) In cases in which different tire sizes are offered as a customer option, a manufacturer may at its option list more than one set of values for GVWR and GAWR, to meet the requirements of paragraphs (g) (3) and (4) of this section. If the label shows more than one set of weight rating values, each value shall be followed by the phrase “with _tires,” inserting the proper tire size designations. A manufacturer may, at its option, list one or more tire sizes where only one set of weight ratings is provided.
Example:
Passenger Car
GVWR: 4,400 lb with P195/65R15 tires; 4,800 lb with P205/75R15 tires.
GAWR: Front - 2,000 lb with P195/65R15 tires at 24 psi; 2,200 lb with P205/75R15 tires at 24 psi. Rear - 2,400 lb with P195/65R15 tires at 28 psi; 2,600 lb with P205/75R15 tires at 28 psi.
(2) (For multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, buses, trailers, and motorcycles) The manufacturer may, at its option, list more than one GVWR-GAWR-tire-rim combination on the label, as long as the listing contains the tire-rim combination installed as original equipment on the vehicle by the manufacturer and conforms in content and format to the requirements for tire-rim-inflation information set forth in Standard Nos. 110, 120, 129 and 139 (§§ 571.110, 571.120, 571.129 and 571.139 of this chapter).
(3) At the option of the manufacturer, additional GVWR-GAWR ratings for operation of the vehicle at reduced speeds may be listed at the bottom of the certification label following any information that is required to be listed.
(i) [Reserved]
(j) A manufacturer may, at its option, provide information concerning which tables in the document that accompanies the vehicle pursuant to § 575.6(a) of this chapter apply to the vehicle. This information may not precede or interrupt the information required by paragraph (g) of this section.
(k) In the case of passenger cars imported into the United States under 49 CFR 591.5(f) to which the label required by this section has not been affixed by the original assembler of the passenger car, a label meeting the requirements of this paragraph shall be affixed before the vehicle is imported into the United States, if the car is from a line listed in appendix A of 49 CFR part 541. This label shall be in addition to, and not in place of, the label required by paragraphs (a) through (j), inclusive, of this section.
(1) The label shall be riveted or permanently affixed in such a manner that it cannot be removed without destroying or defacing it.
(2) The label shall be affixed to either the hinge pillar, door-latch post, or the door edge that meets the door-latch post, next to the driver's seating position, or, if none of these locations is practicable, to the left side of the instrument panel. If that location is also not practicable, the label shall be affixed to the inward-facing surface of the door next to the driver's seating position. The location of the label shall be such that it is easily readable without moving any part of the vehicle except an outer door.
(3) The lettering on the label shall be of a color that contrasts with the background of the label.
(4) The label shall contain the following statements, in the English language, lettered in block capitals and numerals not less than three thirty-seconds of an inch high, in the order shown:
(i) Model year (if applicable) or year of manufacture and line of the vehicle, as reported by the manufacturer that produced or assembled the vehicle. “Model year” is used as defined in § 593.4 of this chapter. “Line” is used as defined in § 541.4 of this chapter.
(ii) Name of the importer. The full corporate or individual name of the importer of the vehicle shall be spelled out, except that such abbreviations as “Co.” or “Inc.” and their foreign equivalents and the middle initial of individuals, may be used. The name of the importer shall be preceded by the words “Imported By”.
(iii) The statement: “This vehicle conforms to the applicable Federal motor vehicle theft prevention standard in effect on the date of manufacture.”
(l)
(1) In the case of a passenger car imported into the United States under 49 CFR 591.5(f) which does not have a vehicle identification number that complies with 49 CFR 565.4 (b), (c), and (g) at the time of importation, the Registered Importer shall permanently affix a label to the vehicle in such a manner that, unless the label is riveted, it cannot be removed without being destroyed or defaced. The label shall be in addition to the label required by paragraph (a) of this section, and shall be affixed to the vehicle in a location specified in paragraph (c) of this section.
(2) The label shall contain the following statement, in the English language, lettered in block capitals and numerals not less than 4 mm high, with the location on the vehicle of the original manufacturer's identification number provided in the blank: ORIGINAL MANUFACTURER'S IDENTIFICATION NUMBER SUBSTITUTING FOR U.S. VIN IS LOCATED ___.

Again, not trying to get into any one up matches, as the VIN sticker doesn't apply to my car. Just trying to provide correct info like the rest of people here.

Thank you for confirming that the date of (completed) manufacture cannot be BEFORE the date codes of the majority of the ORIGINAL components on the car. This isn't about who is right or who is wrong just about common sense. Like picking the correct jack instructions for your car, or correct date coded tires or on and on. Dave W himself was hit with the incorrect date codes tires (two were manufacturing date codes that were weeks after his car "rolled" off of the assembly line) on his "perfect" Valiant along with the incorrect power steering color for that model year. Trivial date codes that cost Dave an almost perfect score, that was a bummer to me. Should we tell the OP to just pick any date (code) on the label they wish as there is no wrong date? Seems what is being said here is there is no way of pinpointing the exact date of manufacture but there is evidence what the date might not be. Maybe Dave can be the upfront, standup guy I've always known him to be and let the OP know the date of manufacture the label should contain when the OP orders the label from him and how he came to that conclusion. This will surely help other customers of his gathering those clues before they place future label orders.

Thanks for the CFR copy and paste, I always enjoy reading them

Agreed with the common sense. Which is why I think Dave chose to take the point hit on the date code of the tires vs having original ones being worn and used. Going after OE certification means that the car has to look as it did new, not used. So, with that being said, what would you rather have done if you were in his shoes? Take the point hit for the incorrect date code but having something that is brand new appearing and perfect in every way (except for the date) or something that has a correct date but appears chewed up and used from road wear? I know if I ever go through OE with a car (not that I will cause I don't have that kind of money) I'd want it to represent something new and not used.

As for the exact date of manufacture, one thing solid can be said. If you have the original VIN sticker, then that is what the date of manufacture of the completed car was. Otherwise going off of date coded parts, fender tags, or whatever, you are only taking a guess which could be wrong. As for Dave.... I'm sure he had worked with thousands and thousands of certification labels in his 20 years or so of service to the industry. Not only does he manufacture Chrysler products but he mentioned that he does it for more than 40 different manufacturers, including motorcycles, semi-complete vehicles, union certification decals other Federal mandated labels. He has worked with every legal institution and has even been instrumental in helping to fabricate current Certification Standards under California DMV Standards. I can almost guarantee his research has gone far beyond dissecting cars from junk yards, deciphering information from grinding numbers on K- Frames, or researching wiper motors or whatever date coded part you'd prefer to chose.

The fact that his choice for choosing cosmetically better appearing tires on his Valiant had absolutely nothing to do with the original VIN label that was affixed to his Valiant. If memory serves me right, he had the correct tires that came with the car from the factory but decided to go with a better looking set of NOS versions for visual purposes only. Had he used the original tires, he would have probably been docked for them not being in pristine. new looking condition, like OE judges on. He chose to have the deduction for the wrong date codes because the "average" person like me, would have never deciphered the DOT coded numbers but they probably would have easily seen the "used" condition that they exhibited. He was going for an OE Car. Period. He probably didn't give a second thought to correct VIN certification from 1970 because he had an original to use. It's as simple as that. No guessing, no assuming what dated parts were placed on the car last, nothing. He had an original to use and therefore, did. Its just like trying to replicate a fender tag. Unless you have an original to go off of, you are only doing a "guess" as to what was on it originally. Again, like you said..... common sense approach.

Hi Dave I've really missed having discussions like this with you for a few years now.


MikeR