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Re: Most Powerfull 59 Degree Small Block Ever?
[Re: ProSport]
#24147
05/10/06 09:22 PM
05/10/06 09:22 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,314
Charlotte, NC
LSP
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,314
Charlotte, NC
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Quote:
Quote:
Yea guys, play nice. How about a SB Mopar "Build Off" ?
I like that idea. 
 Small Block Shootout between the Moparts guys would be cool.
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Re: Most Powerfull 59 Degree Small Block Ever?
[Re: LSP]
#24149
05/10/06 09:58 PM
05/10/06 09:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
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Yea guys, play nice. How about a SB Mopar "Build Off" ?
I like that idea.
Small Block Shootout between the Moparts guys would be cool.
Gee guy's can I play too!!, while my combo is not anything exotic I feel it going to be a solid combo for a factory 59* block set-up, and Ryan know's all the rest of what's going in it,, oh by the way, how about 117mph 11.09et,3180 weight (me in it), how do's that compute as far as HP? 
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: Most Powerfull 59 Degree Small Block Ever?
[Re: bec]
#24150
05/10/06 09:58 PM
05/10/06 09:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
RyanJ
OP
moparts member
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OP
moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
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Quote:
How about 3450lbs at 130mph?
580 on the moroso calc.
And the engine challenge idea would be cool, but unfortunately without a sponsor donating a LARGE check you'd never get it to happen. The problem is all the contests out there today are not based on unlimited rules, and also usually not based on peak power #'s, which is basically what you'd need to have for what we are talking about here. Look at Enginemasters, it is pump gas and average power. And MP is now doing this "Mopowered SB Engine Challenge" that we are in, but it is only 1/3 about Power and TQ, and those are averages, not peaks. The other 2/3 of the scoring is on MSRP cost and vacuum and idle RPM. I don't know if the MP rules have made it on the net yet or not, but we've had paper copies for over a month. Very interesting rules, but in no way is it any kind of peak power contest. And my motor unfortunately is going to make it's HP peak slightly past the 6500 RPM cut off I do believe.
The problem with contests these days is the motors cost too much to build for an unlimited contest. Unless you are independantly wealthy and have an extra $20-$30K laying around to spare you can't build what you want to build in your mind. Even if you sell the motor after the contest you will still take a huge monetary loss on it. The only reason to do a contest engine in my eyes is either for advertising or for fun. At least in the MP contest, they have factored in cost heavily to keep it down, and they gave us $7000 in free parts to start with, otherwise I could'nt have afforded to do one this year. But for a peak power contest you'd need to spend between $20-30K to be competitive. You'd almost have to be given a check for let's say $25,000, build the motor while keeping track of all $ spent on parts, compete with it, and then have to give the motor back to the contest sponsor at the end along with any $ left unspent. There would have to be some form of spending limit for a peak power conets othrwise the cost could get really out of hand. This is why I don't think you'll ever see a peak HP or peak TQ contest. And I think the cost factor as I stated above is one of the reasons WHY you don't see HUGE power 59* motors. Not because it can't be done, but because if someone is going to spend that kind of $ they just move right up to the bigger heads, which for the most part require special blocks. I think that is what some people are missing here... We're not talking about most powerfull SB Mopars ever built, we're talking about specific limited head/block combos. And even with that.... I bet if I sat down and invoiced out Johnny's 416, Carb to pan with headers I guarantee it is a $15-$17K motor. He could have built a comparable or a more powerfull 48* motor for less. And alot of people ralize that today, and are going that route. Of the 14 SBM engine builds I have going right now, let's see 3 are using 59* heads? A set of Battens, B1-BA's, and W2's All the others are W8 and W9. All between 410-440 inches. That seems to be what the public wants today.
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Re: Most Powerfull 59 Degree Small Block Ever?
[Re: RyanJ]
#24152
05/10/06 10:09 PM
05/10/06 10:09 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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How about this 416 in a 70 3000 pound duster which i drove to a 9.90@136. Indy heads,indy intake,jesel rockers,13.1 comp,1050 dominator, 276/281@50 630/630 solid roller,6000 stall and 4.30 gears? how any horses? And this is a *59 motor.this was suppose to dyno at the wheels, i think 500
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Re: Most Powerfull 59 Degree Small Block Ever?
[Re: dartman366]
#24154
05/10/06 10:22 PM
05/10/06 10:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
RyanJ
OP
moparts member
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OP
moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Yea guys, play nice. How about a SB Mopar "Build Off" ?
I like that idea.
Small Block Shootout between the Moparts guys would be cool.
Gee guy's can I play too!!, while my combo is not anything exotic I feel it going to be a solid combo for a factory 59* block set-up, and Ryan know's all the rest of what's going in it,, oh by the way, how about 117mph 11.09et,3180 weight (me in it), how do's that compute as far as HP?
And here is what is relaly nice about using something like the moroso calc, on a combo like your's where both your old motor and new oen are not going to ever see the dyno. How else can you make a good cmparision to how much more power yoru new combo makes than teh old one? Timeslips... When you get the new motor dialed in you will be able to have a pretty accurate comparison on both engines.
117 MPH @ 3180 is right around 390 HP
New motor might go let's say 10.30 @ 129 MPH. 525 HP. Looking at the raw #'s...... you'd say OMG!! my current motor "only" makes 390 HP, and my big $ stroker only makes 525????. But the raw # does not matter, you are supposed to be looking at the COMPARISON. And the new one makes 135 More HP... that is the important thing. Comparing one to the next, and not getting hung up on WHAT the raw # is. Moroso could have made their calc different and made all the #'s 50 higher. It still would'nt matter.... So the old motor would be 440 and the new one 575..... they are still 125 apart and that is what we are looking at when trying to compare 1 engine to the next. You are all getting way too carried away with the raw # and where it fits into your paradigm in your head as to what power #'s mean. I don't know how to explain this to people but I'm not sure there really is any one right or wrong horsepower figure. Yes there is a mathematical equation for it, but I don't think there is any way to actually with 100% certainty measure it to a perfect calibration, like we would love to be able to do. If there was a way to do it, it would make life so much easier. What is a real HP #? Who's dyno is "right" and who's is wrong? And why is one right? How do you know it is right? I think the best thing you can do is try to take as many varibales out of the power equation and live with that. And even with that, there are alot of variables in a race car that can affect trap MPH as well. 1 MPH on a 3000 lb car at 130 MPH trap speed is ~12 HP difference. I've seen engine dyno's vary as much as 80 HP which is aprox 6 MPH in a 3000 lb car. So I'm not saying this is the end all way to compare engines, but it may be the best way we have, short of running them all on same dyno. I'd like to think most drag cars are dialed in, gear, converter etc much closer to 1 MPH of potential rather than 6 MPH off.
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Re: Most Powerfull 59 Degree Small Block Ever?
#24155
05/10/06 10:31 PM
05/10/06 10:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,333
Kalamazoo, MI
StrokedW7
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,333
Kalamazoo, MI
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Quote:
How about this 416 in a 70 3000 pound duster which i drove to a [Email]9.90@136.[/Email] Indy heads,indy intake,jesel rockers,13.1 comp,1050 dominator, 276/281@50 630/630 solid roller,6000 stall and 4.30 gears? how any horses? And this is a *59 motor.this was suppose to dyno at the wheels, i think 500
580
Steve
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Re: Most Powerfull 59 Degree Small Block Ever?
[Re: mopar65]
#24156
05/10/06 10:34 PM
05/10/06 10:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,333
Kalamazoo, MI
StrokedW7
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,333
Kalamazoo, MI
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Quote:
hey Ryan even though both of these are not small block's. could you tell me what these two diffrent cars make.this is my old car 3460 at 126.0 mph. my old car was never checked.
the second is 3600 pounds at 144 mph.his car was soposed to make 840 HP. sorry for getting off track.best of luck in your guy's small block shoot out.lol  Mopar65 
535ish and 820ish
Steve
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Re: Most Powerfull 59 Degree Small Block Ever?
[Re: mopar65]
#24157
05/10/06 10:40 PM
05/10/06 10:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
RyanJ
OP
moparts member
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OP
moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
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Quote:
hey Ryan even though both of these are not small block's. could you tell me what these two diffrent cars make.this is my old car 3460 at 126.0 mph. my old car was never checked.
the second is 3600 pounds at 144 mph.his car was soposed to make 840 HP. sorry for getting off track.best of luck in your guy's small block shoot out.lol Mopar65
3460 @ 126 = 530
3600 @ 144 = 825
Eric: 3000 @ 136 = 578
QuickTree: The only "contest" that really matters is the one being played out every weekend on tracks all around the country. So far no one has seemily come too close other than MegDart to Johnny's 416 for a 59* head/59* block running Naturally Aspirated. Hell I've never built a 59* motor anywhere even close to it to be honest. I'd have to say the most powerfull 59* I've done to date was probably a 428 Batten rectangle port motor I just finished, it's not being dynoed, so we will just wait to see what it runs in car. But I don't think it is even within 50 HP of Johnny's 416. It does'nt have as much compression as I wanted to put in it and the heads no where near as good as an ICH 230 CNC from a design standpoint.
Something i was thinking about earlier were the old Glidden/DLI W2 Pro Stock motors. They should have made quite a bit of power but not sure I'd consider them a real 59* motor. DLI cut out the lifter bores and welded in relocated bores.
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Re: Most Powerfull 59 Degree Small Block Ever?
[Re: RyanJ]
#24158
05/10/06 10:52 PM
05/10/06 10:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,838
Central Missouri Fort Leonard...
mopar65
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,838
Central Missouri Fort Leonard...
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Strokedw7 and Ryan thanks for the info. that is at the rear wheels right. so for a .030 440 with 11.1 compression and out of the box E-heads.makeing 530 hp do you think that is doing pretty good or is there a lot left on the table. My budy has a 471 low deck stroker that was built in springfield mo. and on that guys dyno, he dyno'd 840 HP. but thanks for the info guys. Mopar65
3520 pound race ready 1973 Street/Strip Dodge Dart - Stock stroke 440/727
10.49 @ 125.0 on 93 pump gas & ET Street Radials. More to come...
( SGT Miller) Proudly served 12 years in the US ARMY RESERVES
support our troops
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Post deleted by Defbob
[Re: StrokedW7]
#24161
05/10/06 11:34 PM
05/10/06 11:34 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Re: Most Powerfull 59 Degree Small Block Ever?
[Re: RyanJ]
#24162
05/10/06 11:47 PM
05/10/06 11:47 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 134
Flyover Country
340king
member
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member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 134
Flyover Country
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Ryan, I am not sure about this combo, but I do remember some of what I was told about it. It was a 340 powered Daytona. It was called the Yankee Peddler. While this may not make it as the most powerful, it was the most impressive small block I have seen run.
The car originally came out of NY. They were trying to get a 340 powered car into the 7's. The engine combo was something like 340, 17:1 compression, big roller, etc. When I saw the car run (in SD), it had a 340 with 15:1 compression and the rest of the goodies. On a cold day, it ran in the 8.70's.
They built a newer lighter car and sold the original peddler to a guy from Monticello, MN who ran it in SD. The then owner said they were near the 7's with the old car that wieghed in at about 1900 lbs with driver. From a long time ago, it seems he said they ran in the upper 150's. Sorry I don't have better info on the car. Maybe someone there (NY) has better info. This was some time ago.
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Re: Most Powerfull 59 Degree Small Block Ever?
[Re: 340king]
#24163
05/11/06 01:26 AM
05/11/06 01:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
RyanJ
OP
moparts member
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OP
moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
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Quote:
Ryan, I am not sure about this combo, but I do remember some of what I was told about it. It was a 340 powered Daytona. It was called the Yankee Peddler. While this may not make it as the most powerful, it was the most impressive small block I have seen run.
The car originally came out of NY. They were trying to get a 340 powered car into the 7's. The engine combo was something like 340, 17:1 compression, big roller, etc. When I saw the car run (in SD), it had a 340 with 15:1 compression and the rest of the goodies. On a cold day, it ran in the 8.70's.
They built a newer lighter car and sold the original peddler to a guy from Monticello, MN who ran it in SD. The then owner said they were near the 7's with the old car that wieghed in at about 1900 lbs with driver. From a long time ago, it seems he said they ran in the upper 150's. Sorry I don't have better info on the car. Maybe someone there (NY) has better info. This was some time ago.
Check the attachment on this one and the next one. Someone emailed me these pics a year or so ago, they claimed to be the owner, or builder of one or both of these cars ( I don't remember, I think he said he built them). I forget what he was asking me about exactly, but I just saved these pics and remember him telling me something about them. Don't remember any more about them, but these are the cars you are talking about.
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Re: Most Powerfull 59 Degree Small Block Ever?
#24165
05/11/06 02:02 AM
05/11/06 02:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,486
SoCal
Brian Hafliger
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,486
SoCal
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Quote:
I always come to the conclusion...."How many rounds and how many passes can I go with it"....I really like winning much more than going fast.. 
EXACTLY! This is where my goals are going. It's alot of fun going to the track and running your best time ever, but it's a thousand times more fun going rounds...and I assume winning is even better  I'm actually satisfied going the speed I'm at right now, just want the car to LEAVE as hard as possible...and now I want deadly consistency. As an engine builder though, I'm like a tweaker passing his favorite hangout...just can't help myself sometimes 
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Re: Most Powerfull 59 Degree Small Block Ever?
[Re: LSP]
#24166
05/11/06 05:06 AM
05/11/06 05:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,991
Anoka County, MN
Leigh
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,991
Anoka County, MN
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Yea guys, play nice. How about a SB Mopar "Build Off" ?
I like that idea.
Small Block Shootout between the Moparts guys would be cool.
When I suggested a head porting battle, I was almost tarred and feathered. Good luck. lol... Nice 59 degree numbers. I could only wish my stuff could get close. Someday. lol...
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