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Manton rocker arms #2410381
11/28/17 10:02 PM
11/28/17 10:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,335
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline OP
I Win
AndyF  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,335
Oregon
I didn't know that Manton started making rocker arms. I've bought pushrods from them for years but now I guess they have some rocker arms also. Looks like just Hemi and BB Chevy. The website isn't very informative so maybe it is a new deal or something they do on the side?

manton_rockers.jpg
Re: Manton rocker arms [Re: AndyF] #2410396
11/28/17 10:18 PM
11/28/17 10:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,547
Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines Offline
master
CompWedgeEngines  Offline
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Syracuse,NY
Kinda sorta I guess. Manton actually operates as two different " groups " so to speak.When Terry was around, he was obviously the " pushrod guy". Noel, was , and has always been heavy into rocker arms, rocker screws and blown alky stuff.He has many friends in " high places" on that community. Darien/Meadows etc.He is phenominal with the blown stuff, Hemi's etc. I get all my blown stuff there, rocker screws, and have had him re-bush some Stage V rockers etc. he has had his own stuff for a while now, I think this may be new generation stuff.One thing will be for sure. It will be well built, and for the hardcore racer.NOT for the faint of wallet.


RIP Monte Smith

Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.

WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
Re: Manton rocker arms [Re: AndyF] #2410783
11/29/17 04:05 PM
11/29/17 04:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
B
BradH Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
BradH  Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
B

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
VERY cool stuff... drool

... and way above my pay grade to ever own. drumhit

Re: Manton rocker arms [Re: CompWedgeEngines] #2410827
11/29/17 05:13 PM
11/29/17 05:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
I see they are bushed.. are they alum or
stainless.. nice lookin.. do they make SB
stuff also
wave

Re: Manton rocker arms [Re: AndyF] #2410851
11/29/17 05:43 PM
11/29/17 05:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,209
Ontario, Canada
S
Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
Stanton  Offline
Don't question me!
S

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,209
Ontario, Canada
Given the itty-bitty arms I'm guessing they're not aluminum !!

Re: Manton rocker arms [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2410854
11/29/17 05:45 PM
11/29/17 05:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
M
madscientist Offline
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Posts: 4,457
Washington
Originally Posted By MR_P_BODY
I see they are bushed.. are they alum or
stainless.. nice lookin.. do they make SB
stuff also
wave



I wish they did make SB stuff. But I already called. If they did make some, you and I would probably be the only buyers.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Manton rocker arms [Re: madscientist] #2410860
11/29/17 05:56 PM
11/29/17 05:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Originally Posted By madscientist
Originally Posted By MR_P_BODY
I see they are bushed.. are they alum or
stainless.. nice lookin.. do they make SB
stuff also
wave



I wish they did make SB stuff. But I already called. If they did make some, you and I would probably be the only buyers.


Everything I own for rockers is TD.. I was just curious
wave

Re: Manton rocker arms [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2410887
11/29/17 06:39 PM
11/29/17 06:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,190
Melbourne , Australia
LA360 Offline
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Posts: 6,190
Melbourne , Australia
They're Duramax arms or something similar. They seem to do a bit of diesel stuff, along with the Fuel stuff. I saw the BBC rocker arms on their Instagram earlier in the year. All the arms are some grade of tool steel from memory. All very high quality stuff as you'd expect.


Alan Jones
Re: Manton rocker arms [Re: AndyF] #2410945
11/29/17 07:59 PM
11/29/17 07:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,807
Mopar Country, Mi
ccdave Offline
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Posts: 1,807
Mopar Country, Mi
Those look great. Don’t know if the non Hemi Mopar market is big enough for mass production.

Re: Manton rocker arms [Re: AndyF] #2411016
11/29/17 10:24 PM
11/29/17 10:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,225
New York
polyspheric Offline
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Posts: 4,225
New York
If those are steel there's a lot of excess reciprocating weight yet to come off (near the ends, leave the bushing boss alone).

I don't understand why, after all that R&D money spent, they don't do an FEA that will instantly tell them where the unnecessary weight is, which they can then remove from the "lite" model... and charge $100 extra (when actually it just means running the semi-finished rocker through another CNC program, no hand labor).

If it were my purchase I'd happily pay that to know that the weight was removed where I couldn't evaluate it. Some of is intuitive (you know what I mean) but how far back can you bevel the edge before the roller pin is compromised...?
Will it help? Where you're not sure if you have enough spring, or pushrod, or you're stable at X RPM it can't hurt.


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Manton rocker arms [Re: polyspheric] #2411041
11/29/17 10:57 PM
11/29/17 10:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036
bean town ....Ca
W
WHITEDART Offline
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Posts: 3,036
bean town ....Ca
Originally Posted By polyspheric
If those are steel there's a lot of excess reciprocating weight yet to come off (near the ends, leave the bushing boss alone).

I don't understand why, after all that R&D money spent, they don't do an FEA that will instantly tell them where the unnecessary weight is, which they can then remove from the "lite" model... and charge $100 extra (when actually it just means running the semi-finished rocker through another CNC program, no hand labor).

If it were my purchase I'd happily pay that to know that the weight was removed where I couldn't evaluate it. Some of is intuitive (you know what I mean) but how far back can you bevel the edge before the roller pin is compromised...?
Will it help? Where you're not sure if you have enough spring, or pushrod, or you're stable at X RPM it can't hurt.
really...


In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
Re: Manton rocker arms [Re: AndyF] #2411077
11/29/17 11:57 PM
11/29/17 11:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,225
New York
polyspheric Offline
master
polyspheric  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,225
New York
Of course, engineering is just silly.
Continue to make rocker arms based on sketch on cocktail napkin.


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Manton rocker arms [Re: polyspheric] #2411138
11/30/17 02:53 AM
11/30/17 02:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 44,161
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
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C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 44,161
Bend,OR USA
Isn't theory, computer modeling, one thing and real world racing another thing altogether work
I think some of the better all out race T&D rockers are made with chromoly (SP?) steel
I have set of paired shaft Jesels rocker that are not aluminum, there steel of some sort work
When I called Jesels tech help line they denied making any non aluminum rocker arms confused


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Manton rocker arms [Re: AndyF] #2411179
11/30/17 10:01 AM
11/30/17 10:01 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
dthemi Offline
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dthemi  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
Noel Manton made a custom set of 426 hemi rocker arms for me about 15 years ago to solve a geo problem. They were the nicest rockers I'd ever seen at the time. The shaft bore looked like a fine Italian shotgun bore lol. I can't remember how much, but the motor picked up power, and we were able to turn it another 500 rpm without it being erratic.

Re: Manton rocker arms [Re: Cab_Burge] #2411221
11/30/17 11:36 AM
11/30/17 11:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,629
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here
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Posts: 13,629
Marion, South Carolina [><]
Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
Isn't theory, computer modeling, one thing and real world racing another thing altogether work

Yes Cab!!! up up


CHIP
'69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60
'70 'cuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75....................FOR SALE
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
'17 Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi
Re: Manton rocker arms [Re: AndyF] #2411245
11/30/17 12:15 PM
11/30/17 12:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 248
Cranberry Twp PA (North of Pit...
rumblefish72 Offline
enthusiast
rumblefish72  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 248
Cranberry Twp PA (North of Pit...
The FEA Software has evolved to the point where everything expensive that's manufactured in volume gets many FEA iterations before anything is ever produced. Many years ago, I had a long discussion with John Swanson (founder of ANSYS) and he schooled me on the evolution of FEA software tools. I was amazed and found it hard to believe all that he was telling me but it is true. The sophistication of these FEA Tools is mind-blowing. I've been learning Solidworks CAD in my spare time. I've built several models out of parts in Solidworks. Once you put all the parts together with all the "mates" to make the model, you can actually spin a crankshaft with connecting rods and pistons by click-and-hold on the crankshaft and spinning it by moving the mouse around. Seeing the crank spin, the rods move and the pistons go up and down all on the computer screen was pretty cool. Even Solidworks has simulation capability (not to the extent that the ANSYS Tool has). Of course, these tools aren't foolproof but when there's a goof-up, it's usually because the simulation parameters weren't entered correctly or there was a force that you were unaware of and didn't account for in the sim. It's not the simulation software that made the mistake. I'm by no means an expert in this but I am a computer guy and follow the state of the art in many computer related areas. Some of this stuff is scary.

But of course, there's no substitute for testing at the dragstrip. But if something fails there after the sim says you're ok, then you need to figure out what parameter you messed up when running the simulation.

As engine builders and drag racers, we typically are building one-off, low-volume parts so we draw it up on a napkin and machine it on our manual mills. We test at the track and if it breaks, we redesign and re-manufacture. But that's not the way the Manufacturing Industry does things.


1972 Pro-Street 'Cuda, 500" Eagle stoker B Block, Eddy RPM heads, Victor Manifold, 850 Mighty Demon, Hemi 4 Speed, Dana 60 w/4.88 gears - Built by Hansen Racing Middlesex - NJ
Re: Manton rocker arms [Re: rumblefish72] #2411319
11/30/17 02:50 PM
11/30/17 02:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 44,161
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 44,161
Bend,OR USA
Designers, programmers and engineers make mistake, machine don't up
I've worked and watch the evolution of communications, all types since the early 1960. Once the phone company switch to main frame computers for providing all types phone service I started taking classes in electricity and computer hardware and software to help me do my job better.
We have come a long ways in every type of technology but we still have people designing, theorizing and find out new ways to learn and make mistakes shruggy work
I can't wait for teletransporting whistling


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Manton rocker arms [Re: Cab_Burge] #2411389
11/30/17 04:57 PM
11/30/17 04:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,345
NE Ohio
DoubleD Offline
top fuel
DoubleD  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,345
NE Ohio
Engineering is at first usually a sketch (even on a napkin) – then formal design – creation of the product – verification of the product – implementation of the product – then repeat the cycle until the data shows you have an acceptable failure rate - You never will never have perfection and if you come close you probably blew the project budget or over designed it along the way. Hence the old saying Good - Fast - Cheap – pick two of the three!

Also engineering is about learning from others thoughts, designs, opinions even from the best source the guys on the manufacturing floor – This was drilled into my head in engineering school from the start – some never listen and usually end up a failure - after all you can not call yourself an engineer unless you have first earned the degree and in my mind the respect of others!

If the engineering field was easy and paid well everybody would do it

Re: Manton rocker arms [Re: DoubleD] #2411393
11/30/17 05:16 PM
11/30/17 05:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
D
dogdays Offline
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dogdays  Offline
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Posts: 16,376
DD, your brand of engineering was scorned 40 years ago. This is the process my cousin who worked for Chrysler Engineering saw the French engineers using when they designed the Simca 1204. That car was an utter flop in the US. He couldn't believe they were so backwards.

If you have to build something and test it to find out if your design is good enough, you are not a good designer. Even using a slide rule one can do better than that. With Finite Element Analysis the design will have gone through several iterations before even a prototype is made. If the part fails after all of this it means that bad assumptions were made during the design process.

What blows my mind is Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD). To be able to model the flow of a tiny bit of fluid as it passes through a machine and then figure out the effect of small changes to the shape or size or velocity is almost magical.

R.

Re: Manton rocker arms [Re: dogdays] #2411404
11/30/17 05:46 PM
11/30/17 05:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,345
NE Ohio
DoubleD Offline
top fuel
DoubleD  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,345
NE Ohio
you miss interpret - everything gets prototyped before production nothing goes from design to mass production without verification. design today includes analysis by computer modeling before prototyping - process is process. And verification continues into post production and the design continues to evolve for either efficiency, cost or quality.

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