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1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing? #2401870
11/11/17 01:10 PM
11/11/17 01:10 PM
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RapidRobert Offline OP
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A friend has one & I was wondering what "controls" the fuel/ign so if it acts up we'll know what we might be up against. thank you for your time.


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Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing? [Re: RapidRobert] #2401889
11/11/17 01:48 PM
11/11/17 01:48 PM
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1996 first year of OBD-II software in PCM.

PCM fires ignition coil after getting signal from slots in flexplate rim, then calculating delay. PCM "knows" number one cylinder from sensor in distribultor.

Fuel injectors squirt individually for each cylinder, but spray onto backsides of closed intake valve for better atomization.
Below 80% throttle, PCM "knows" air to fuel from O2 sensor and keeps modifying two memory counters, one short term and one long term AFF and AAF, to stay near 14.7 to 1

Above 80% throttle PCM goes to very rich air to fuel ( 10.5 to 11) to surpress detonation and to keep catalytic converter ceramic from melting/ cracking.

Several "off road" PCM OBD-II software modifiers can write a custom tune.

Your friends 1996 still has mostly individual wired up speedo and gauges,
but the OBD-II PCM had its first year of twiddling with the pressures inside the automatic 46RE trans. Also first year of EGR valve elimination.

http://dodgeram.info/tsb/1996-index.htm

Has list of known engine trans issues.
Be sure to re-route the ignition wires.
Check for blown plenum gasket.

Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing? [Re: 360view] #2402067
11/11/17 07:29 PM
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Thank you for the comprehensive info, much appreciated. thats scary stuff! If it acts up & he wants to keep it we may have to convert it back to a carb/electronic dist/mech fuel pump or a low po electric.


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Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing? [Re: RapidRobert] #2402314
11/12/17 01:21 AM
11/12/17 01:21 AM
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Easy to work on and easy to troubleshoot. Don't let it scare you...

Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing? [Re: RapidRobert] #2402404
11/12/17 11:18 AM
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run it in the dark and check for old plug wires arcing to heat shields.

Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing? [Re: maxwedge1] #2402502
11/12/17 02:20 PM
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Jim, when I read 360views' first sentence I became scared straight. Max, I will check for that the next time he stops over after dark. He said it starts/runs/stops/handles good & his only complaint is the mileage (12 iirc) & on my quick inspection nothing jumped out at me as needing attention. thanks guys.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing? [Re: RapidRobert] #2402508
11/12/17 02:26 PM
11/12/17 02:26 PM
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-DODGE-RAM-VAN-WAGON-REAR-WHEEL-DRIVE-FACTORY-SERVICE-MANUAL/382258712670?hash=item590065105e:g:8EwAAOSwHLNZWvIs&vxp=mtr

Will pay for itself many times

Chrysler also sells a thinner supplement book on
Diagnosing the Electronic Fuel Injection MPI system that has helpful fault guide tables and IF-Then troubleshooting flowcharts

This one is for the V10 pickup
but look for a similar book for the 1996 Ram Van

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Chrysler-Dodge-Ram-Truck-8-0-L-Electronic-Fuel-Injection-MPI-Manual/292150250650?hash=item4405830c9a:g:0uQAAOSwAO9ZQOSr&vxp=mtr

Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing? [Re: 360view] #2402511
11/12/17 02:27 PM
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No Mas


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing? [Re: RapidRobert] #2402955
11/13/17 12:26 PM
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I found out it is a '97. I wanted to clean the batt cable terminals but I did not know if you have to jump the terminal to maintain continuity when doing that in order to not mess up the computer?? Also from way back there was something about haveing the injectors cleaned regularly?? is that something that can be sprayed into the throttle body (easy/difficult?) or is that a dealer job?


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing? [Re: RapidRobert] #2403163
11/13/17 07:05 PM
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If you disconnect the battery the PCM computer will "relearn" the fuel injector memory banks and auto trans shift memories over a few hours of driving. A trouble code will be set in PCM computer memory when the battery is reconnected, but the CEL light will not usually turn on continuously just because of that.

Techron Fuel Injector Concentrate Plus
is a good in the gas tank treatment,
as if Yamaha Ring Free.

The injector cleaning rigs that splice into the fuel lines and substitute burnable detergent for gasoline are more expensive but clean quickly.

Taking the fuel injectors out and sending them off for cleaning is typically $25 per injector but they flow test each one. Put the highest flowing injector in cylinder #7. The "catch screens" at the top of each fuel injector get replaced when this is done, probably a good thing.

Moparts members here have built their own pressurized cleaning rigs.

Some owners report that the cheap ultrasonic jewelry cleaners will clean fuel injectors.

Buy new o rings when re-installing.

Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing? [Re: RapidRobert] #2403178
11/13/17 07:39 PM
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The one thing that engine was famous fo the coils rusting out the bottom and resulting poor performance or no startAlso for whatever reason many people thought they had plat or 100k Plugs wrong!The vans ran well for the engine size and overall gas mileage was poor they can be a real reliable runner with low maintenance

Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing? [Re: 360view] #2403181
11/13/17 07:44 PM
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Good info & much appreciated & I think I am going to leave it (all) alone & hope it stays running good for him but he is my best friend & this is a new acquisition of his so I wanted to be proactive if possible.


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Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing? [Re: RapidRobert] #2403334
11/14/17 12:46 AM
11/14/17 12:46 AM
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Salem
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12mpg is a touch low if it's highway driving. Plugged catalytic convertor usually biggest cause and next is cleaning both O2 sensors.

Bigger thing to worry about is having fresh ATF4 and filter no later than 60,000 miles. Find out when/if it was done or you'll be under there with Him grunting that sorry-excuse for a transmission out of there. DAMHIK.


Mo' Farts

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Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing? [Re: Grizzly] #2403393
11/14/17 03:08 AM
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12 around town, what trans does it have? I had assumed it was a 727


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Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing? [Re: RapidRobert] #2403419
11/14/17 09:12 AM
11/14/17 09:12 AM
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If it is a high mileage 46RE automatic transmission I would not put current spec Chrysler ATF+4 in it. This new ATF allows the friction surfaces to slip at lower torque.

Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing? [Re: RapidRobert] #2403473
11/14/17 01:18 PM
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12 around town is great, there's nothing wrong with it.

360view, would the current ATF cause shudder at idle in gear? I get it on the rare occasion in my truck.


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Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing? [Re: RapidRobert] #2403543
11/14/17 04:13 PM
11/14/17 04:13 PM
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Not sure about shutter at idle with ATF+4

ATF+4 comparison to 3 other ATFs

Kinda technical

https://www.scribd.com/document/96178547/SAE-982674

Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing? [Re: RapidRobert] #2403553
11/14/17 04:21 PM
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Sample quote

The results of this evaluation are shown inFigures 5 and 6.
ATF C is the General MotorsDEXRON-III
ATF D is MERCON-V.
ATF D is the Chrysler MOPAR ATF+ Type 7176

End quote

Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing? [Re: 360view] #2403649
11/14/17 07:38 PM
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Blazin' Bob,
Put away the axe! You cannot solve any problems on that 1997 van by chopping things up. The computer is so well integrated into the system that it would be more work to try to do without it than to just get things working properly. Most of the time it isn't the computer's fault. They regularly last hundreds of thousands of miles. Chances are that "rebuilt" computer you get at Autozone is used and has been checked for function and put in the box with an AZ sticker on it. Nothing was done to "rebuild" it besides checking function.

That kind of mileage around town is typical. Last year I took a 400 mile trip in a 3/4 ton Ram 2500 4x4 truck and it was mostly highway driving. Truck had approximately 40K miles on it and has been maintained very well. Fuel mileage for the trip was 13.5mpg. I was shocked. I began to understand why people say Dodges eat gas. That truck would be hard pressed to get 11mpg around town.

On a 100K+ vehicle it is not uncommon for the O2 sensors to have started to drift. You won't get a CEL but they are not optimum. They don't cost too much from Rockauto. You can get both from Rockauto for less than $70. I prefer NTK, then Delphi. I have heard (three most dangerous words) that NTK are preferred over Bosch. Delphi is the most high tech of American brands, even though they are GM. I am buying NTK whenever possible.

I'd suggest checking the individual plugs and plug leads using the clamp-on timing light method. Look for any traces of missing flashes. That will give you an indication of a problem. I suppose if you were really serious your friend could chain the van to an immovable object and you could run the test with the vehicle in gear with torque converter at stall speed. This is obviously unsafe and so I am not recommending it to you. I guess a chassis dyno would be the equivalent.

360view's information is worth rereading.

Last point, getting the injectors cleaned and flow matched can't hurt although it feels expensive. One mismatched injector could throw off the whole fuel computation system.

Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing? [Re: RapidRobert] #2403693
11/14/17 09:08 PM
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First off for those that read the Tech paper - while it isn't made real clear in the publication - there is a distinct difference in operating systems between Electrohydraulic (EH) versus hydraulic (H) transmissions.
Torque converter controls on the EH allow for clutch modulation which controls slippage from near zero to 60 rpm where the H units do not provide slippage by design. As for actual clutch actuation the same thing applies. EH units monitor and control clutch slippage on the gear change and after. H units apply the clutch but do not provide slippage by design. Friction material did not go through any design or material changes during these fluid tests. As a result control systems did not change either. In short what that means is you will not get any issue going from ATF 3 to 4 on the H transmissions at idle or down the road. H units are 30/31TH fwd, 904/998/999, 727, 42/44/46/47/48 red units.
RFE units fall under EH as do 41,42,62 FWD trans. For guys using the H rwd units note in the pub that using 4 greatly reduces wear - and on the OD units, there are light years differences betweeen dexron and 4 regarding wear.
As for cold fluid viscosity - 4 is the best of the fluids ever used by Chrysler. Reference to "wax". Dennis and Tracey (female) were both sharp cookies. Dennis retired and Tracey left Chrysler for a job at another company - at a great loss to Chrysler.

Last edited by Transman; 11/14/17 09:10 PM.
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