1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing?
#2401870
11/11/17 01:10 PM
11/11/17 01:10 PM
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RapidRobert
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A friend has one & I was wondering what "controls" the fuel/ign so if it acts up we'll know what we might be up against. thank you for your time.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2401889
11/11/17 01:48 PM
11/11/17 01:48 PM
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360view
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1996 first year of OBD-II software in PCM. PCM fires ignition coil after getting signal from slots in flexplate rim, then calculating delay. PCM "knows" number one cylinder from sensor in distribultor. Fuel injectors squirt individually for each cylinder, but spray onto backsides of closed intake valve for better atomization. Below 80% throttle, PCM "knows" air to fuel from O2 sensor and keeps modifying two memory counters, one short term and one long term AFF and AAF, to stay near 14.7 to 1 Above 80% throttle PCM goes to very rich air to fuel ( 10.5 to 11) to surpress detonation and to keep catalytic converter ceramic from melting/ cracking. Several "off road" PCM OBD-II software modifiers can write a custom tune. Your friends 1996 still has mostly individual wired up speedo and gauges, but the OBD-II PCM had its first year of twiddling with the pressures inside the automatic 46RE trans. Also first year of EGR valve elimination. http://dodgeram.info/tsb/1996-index.htmHas list of known engine trans issues. Be sure to re-route the ignition wires. Check for blown plenum gasket.
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Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing?
[Re: 360view]
#2402067
11/11/17 07:29 PM
11/11/17 07:29 PM
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RapidRobert
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Thank you for the comprehensive info, much appreciated. thats scary stuff! If it acts up & he wants to keep it we may have to convert it back to a carb/electronic dist/mech fuel pump or a low po electric.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing?
[Re: maxwedge1]
#2402502
11/12/17 02:20 PM
11/12/17 02:20 PM
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RapidRobert
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Jim, when I read 360views' first sentence I became scared straight. Max, I will check for that the next time he stops over after dark. He said it starts/runs/stops/handles good & his only complaint is the mileage (12 iirc) & on my quick inspection nothing jumped out at me as needing attention. thanks guys.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2402955
11/13/17 12:26 PM
11/13/17 12:26 PM
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RapidRobert
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I found out it is a '97. I wanted to clean the batt cable terminals but I did not know if you have to jump the terminal to maintain continuity when doing that in order to not mess up the computer?? Also from way back there was something about haveing the injectors cleaned regularly?? is that something that can be sprayed into the throttle body (easy/difficult?) or is that a dealer job?
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing?
[Re: 360view]
#2403181
11/13/17 07:44 PM
11/13/17 07:44 PM
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RapidRobert
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Good info & much appreciated & I think I am going to leave it (all) alone & hope it stays running good for him but he is my best friend & this is a new acquisition of his so I wanted to be proactive if possible.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2403334
11/14/17 12:46 AM
11/14/17 12:46 AM
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Grizzly
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12mpg is a touch low if it's highway driving. Plugged catalytic convertor usually biggest cause and next is cleaning both O2 sensors.
Bigger thing to worry about is having fresh ATF4 and filter no later than 60,000 miles. Find out when/if it was done or you'll be under there with Him grunting that sorry-excuse for a transmission out of there. DAMHIK.
Mo' Farts
Moderated by "tbagger".
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Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing?
[Re: Grizzly]
#2403393
11/14/17 03:08 AM
11/14/17 03:08 AM
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RapidRobert
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12 around town, what trans does it have? I had assumed it was a 727
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2403473
11/14/17 01:18 PM
11/14/17 01:18 PM
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Grizzly
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12 around town is great, there's nothing wrong with it.
360view, would the current ATF cause shudder at idle in gear? I get it on the rare occasion in my truck.
Mo' Farts
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Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2403693
11/14/17 09:08 PM
11/14/17 09:08 PM
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A727Tflite
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First off for those that read the Tech paper - while it isn't made real clear in the publication - there is a distinct difference in operating systems between Electrohydraulic (EH) versus hydraulic (H) transmissions. Torque converter controls on the EH allow for clutch modulation which controls slippage from near zero to 60 rpm where the H units do not provide slippage by design. As for actual clutch actuation the same thing applies. EH units monitor and control clutch slippage on the gear change and after. H units apply the clutch but do not provide slippage by design. Friction material did not go through any design or material changes during these fluid tests. As a result control systems did not change either. In short what that means is you will not get any issue going from ATF 3 to 4 on the H transmissions at idle or down the road. H units are 30/31TH fwd, 904/998/999, 727, 42/44/46/47/48 red units. RFE units fall under EH as do 41,42,62 FWD trans. For guys using the H rwd units note in the pub that using 4 greatly reduces wear - and on the OD units, there are light years differences betweeen dexron and 4 regarding wear. As for cold fluid viscosity - 4 is the best of the fluids ever used by Chrysler. Reference to "wax". Dennis and Tracey (female) were both sharp cookies. Dennis retired and Tracey left Chrysler for a job at another company - at a great loss to Chrysler.
Last edited by Transman; 11/14/17 09:10 PM.
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Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing?
[Re: 360view]
#2403711
11/14/17 09:39 PM
11/14/17 09:39 PM
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383man
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1996 first year of OBD-II software in PCM. PCM fires ignition coil after getting signal from slots in flexplate rim, then calculating delay. PCM "knows" number one cylinder from sensor in distribultor. Fuel injectors squirt individually for each cylinder, but spray onto backsides of closed intake valve for better atomization. Below 80% throttle, PCM "knows" air to fuel from O2 sensor and keeps modifying two memory counters, one short term and one long term AFF and AAF, to stay near 14.7 to 1 Above 80% throttle PCM goes to very rich air to fuel ( 10.5 to 11) to surpress detonation and to keep catalytic converter ceramic from melting/ cracking. Several "off road" PCM OBD-II software modifiers can write a custom tune. Your friends 1996 still has mostly individual wired up speedo and gauges, but the OBD-II PCM had its first year of twiddling with the pressures inside the automatic 46RE trans. Also first year of EGR valve elimination. http://dodgeram.info/tsb/1996-index.htmHas list of known engine trans issues. Be sure to re-route the ignition wires. Check for blown plenum gasket. Very well said. From my years at Mopar dealers I would have said just about the same as you did a good job explaining it. Basically he is saying the dist hall effect is the cam sensor on your eng as it has a crank sensor to know when #1 is at TDC and the dist cam sensor tells it when #1 is on comp. Funny but some years of this eng will keep running if you unhook the dist harness after the eng is running. Thats because once the PCM learns when #1 is on comp it dont have to look at it again until a restart. I found this out by accidently unhooking the dist with the eng running. They say if you crank the eng with the dist unhooked it will start but it may take a long crank time as if it dont see a dist/cam sensor signal the PCM will start trying the firing orders until it gets it right and starts. But not all year Mopars will run without the cam sensor signal. One thing I saw alot was the lower intake plenum gasket blowing out and sucking oil into the intake also. As for the trans fluid I remember when we started having trouble first in the front drive cars with the 604 (41TE) trans as they can do partial lock-up on the converter and we would see the cars shudder at about 30 to 40 mph from converter clutch chatter. So that one reason the trans fluid was changed to help stop the part throttle shutter from the converter clutch. They used to have us flash the trans controller so it would only let the converter clutch be full on or full off with no partial lock-up. We also had to burnish the converter clutch on new converters on some models. But bottom line IMO is the ATF+4 will be fine in your trans as we used it in all cars. In fact I use ATF+4 in the 727 in my 63 Sport Fury trans which I built with all Mopar clutches and steel plates and it shifts as hard as any trans I worked with using the ATF+4. Since I worked at a Mopar dealer for 24 years and did trans work I have a few extra bottles of ATF+4 around so I use it in my hotrod and so does my brother and it has worked great in our hotrods. I have had my 63 on the road since 2006 and I still have the same 727 in it and I have never had it out or apart and it still shift great. I would get a good scanner if I were you as the PCM has good diagnostics in it and with the Mopar DRBIII scanner you could diagnose them so well with all it let you do. Good luck with it.
Last edited by 383man; 11/14/17 09:41 PM.
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Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing?
[Re: 383man]
#2403737
11/14/17 10:41 PM
11/14/17 10:41 PM
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RapidRobert
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this high tech is way beyond what I can grasp! If there is an issue I'm gonna tell him to unload it. thanks guys.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 1996 dodge van, 5.2 mag. what controls the fuel & timing?
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#2403952
11/15/17 01:45 PM
11/15/17 01:45 PM
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RapidRobert
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I will inform him that 12 is very good & I may have misspoke earlier, I have no plans at this point to (possibly) convert it to carb unless the FI would go bad in the future (tho its worrysome that a system you ain't familiar with could potentially go bad) & everything appears to be good so far on the one time I rode in it (no noises/handles good & he says it starts/stops real good) so all is good in the 'hood. thanks guys.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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