Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno
[Re: AndyF]
#2382025
10/04/17 07:24 PM
10/04/17 07:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,195 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,195
Bend,OR USA
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How are you getting oil pressure into the block? #12 line from the top of the pump goes to a filter and then another #12 line from the filter goes into the block plate. The block plate is behind the pump in this picture. Thanks for sharing that
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2382805
10/06/17 01:47 AM
10/06/17 01:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,041 Oregon
AndyF
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Oregon
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How are you getting oil pressure into the block? Here is a picture showing the line from the oil pump to the filter and then the line back to the block. Fairly simple setup but it looks complex because the hoses run back and forth.
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Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno
[Re: AndyF]
#2383321
10/07/17 10:29 AM
10/07/17 10:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,050 Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB
master
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Posts: 4,050
Shelby Twp. Mi
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Andy ,Not wanting to hijack,but what is wrong with the Indy 400-3,400-2 ?
Thanks Charlie Just depends on your point of view. The average bracket guy can bolt it on and run just fine but if you're trying to squeeze power out of an engine they leave a lot to be desired. The port size is small, the plenum is poorly cast, etc. If you ever have the chance to compare an Indy intake casting next to a Trick Flow casting you'll see that Indy doesn't really put much effort into their pattern making. The plenum on my 440-3 is really sloppy. The cloverleaf pattern is uneven and the casting quality is kind of poor. On a high horsepower engine that uneven pattern is going to mess up the fuel distribution between cylinders. If you compare a raw Indy casting to an intake that Wilson has prepped you'll see a world of difference. Andy, can you post the port EGT's so we can see the difference in manifold fuel distribution?
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Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno
[Re: AndyF]
#2383897
10/08/17 02:37 PM
10/08/17 02:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,041 Oregon
AndyF
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Posts: 31,041
Oregon
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It has a modified 950 Dominator on it. The problem with using EGT for cylinder balance is that the thermocouples don't all read the same. Also, they are super sensitive to placement. So as far as I'm concerned, if they are within 100 degrees then they are equal. If you wiggle the thermocouple around you can change the temp quite a bit so that tells me that the thermocouple placement is changing the reading, not the mixture. Here is a video of a dyno pull. You can watch the EGT readings if you want but I don't pay a huge amount of attention to them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hol_SteaFPY
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Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2387157
10/14/17 12:43 AM
10/14/17 12:43 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,505 TN
SCATPACK 1
pro stock
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pro stock
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TN
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.......don't know if the 270 heads make X more power and the costs per hp for that difference. I think common sense should be the driving decision maker here. Engine builds geared more towards the milder street applications, or moderate compression bracket builds using stock stroke cranks might tend to favor the 240's, while the higher hp "rowdier" combos, especially those with stroker cranks, should be able to exploit the added runner size and flow of the 270's. In other words, if you're looking for a 550-600hp 446, the 240's make more sense. If you're looking at doing something like a 700-750hp 505 or 520, then the 270's will get you there easier. For the 600-700hp crowd, the choice won't be as clear, and which one you select might come down to what other components/criteria are being considered(for example, does it all need to fit under a flat hood?). How much more power from the 240 heads over a good set of 906 heads (no port work, just bowl area and good valve job)?
Old Geezer Racing
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Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno
[Re: AndyF]
#2387395
10/14/17 04:33 PM
10/14/17 04:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,050 Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB
master
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Shelby Twp. Mi
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Yep made two pulls before quitting time. 762 and 756 hp for the pulls. This is with the M1 intake and no vacuum pump. I'm expecting to pick up power with the vacuum pump and the larger Indy intake. Should get a bunch of runs tomorrow. Weather is perfect, should be correcting down in the morning. Air is dense. Thanks again Andy for sharing. Just to clarify, you made about 760HP without a vacuum pump using the M1 and then 775HP without vacuum but using the Indy intake? So you would guess, around 790HP using a vacuum pump on this engine with the Indy intake? I looked at the video and it appears some (at least one) of the EGT's are damaged and not reading correctly. Take my experience for what it's worth, they are a cheap alternative for dialing in distribution when executed correctly. So I understand why you wouldn't use a feature like this to tune. Either way this is an impressive build. Good work.
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Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno
[Re: AndyF]
#2387397
10/14/17 04:36 PM
10/14/17 04:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,050 Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB
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Shelby Twp. Mi
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I'd like to have an eight O2 sensor setup but I don't think it fits into my budget at the moment. EXACTLY... 8 AFR sensors...$$$ I have no doubt the distribution was pretty decent, I just wanted to see what it actually was is all.
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Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno
[Re: AndyF]
#2392915
10/25/17 02:41 PM
10/25/17 02:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,367 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,367
Las Vegas
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With been through this debate a few times in the heads up stuff. We have shown as have others that in terms of HP it is a wash between a dry and wet sump. Lobbying to get penalties removed from a dry sump set up was the motivation. They have changed the rule to a 5% addition for a dry sump which is down from 10% but still wont do away with that rule. It benefits us now as we run a wet sump system now. The dry sump shines in two areas, oil control and generally speaking the ability to pull more vacuum. Although we can pull 20" on a wet sump...
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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