Re: 440 build
[Re: dynamite]
#2370028
09/13/17 01:31 PM
09/13/17 01:31 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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The price for turning the crank is a bit on the pricey side but when you figure the price of the cheaper rods and pistons(chevy) it will be close to a wash.. a stroker crank kit might be right as of now.. that would take care of the bottom end..then look at the heads and cam.. heads would be my next step.. just start on the basic block stuff.. if you look around you can buy a lot of the stuff at reasonable prices when on sale... none of this stuff is cheap on a high school kids income but when its done he will have a nice piece.. have fun with the kid while you can
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Re: 440 build
[Re: gss]
#2370198
09/13/17 05:17 PM
09/13/17 05:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
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I would much prefer starting with a used cam and lifter set which wore into each other in the same engine they're going back to. You said you liked the cam back in the day. Yes there are many more modern cams with faster lifter acceleration giving more area under the flow curve BUT the money wasted on a new cam could be put to better use, while eliminating a potential problem breaking in the new cam.
If you search for my handle and .509, you will see that I don't think this cam is all that wonderful. But it can be changed any time. It's a lot easier to swap cams than it is to pull an engine out of the car and clean every oil passage So keeping the current cam is a no-brainer for me.
I agree that the valve guides won't leak around the guides. I have seen similar cracking on heads that were rebuilt. IF you must use stock heads, scout around for a pair of 452 heads, even 213 heads. These are later heads with induction hardened valve seat areas. None of the 440 heads flow sufficient air for a 440 or larger high output engine. There is very little magic in 906s. They came on every bigblock, even the two barrel ones.
I think you're on the right track. Stock crank, stock rods, newer lighter pistons. Stock type heads. Don't pay much for the head cores, they have value decreasing with time.
Lastly, every kid wrecks his first car. It's a truism, but it is based on fact. So he drives carefully. How about with the car loaded with kids chanting "Floor It, Floor It, etc." I'd go a different route. A Hyundai Elantra, 10 years old, or so. They are like anvils, you can beat on them. They are quick, 0 - 60 in less than 8 seconds. I got my 2007 for $3700 two years ago. My car had 91K miles, I'm now at 141K and expect service until 250K. I may have to replace the clutch before too long. You'll do what you want, but be mindful about it. I'd say to the kid that if he can drive for two years without a single ticket, he can drive the Charger.
Good Luck, R.
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Re: 440 build
[Re: gss]
#2370496
09/14/17 01:40 AM
09/14/17 01:40 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 246 Cranberry Twp PA (North of Pit...
rumblefish72
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 246
Cranberry Twp PA (North of Pit...
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If you decide to (or need to) go to 0.060" over, PM me. I have a nice set of 10.25 to 1 Venolia Pistons with 0.990 pins and factory LY rods (bushed to 990 on the small end) that you can have for the cost of shipping. I built almost that exact same RB motor (MP 509 cam, ported Stage IV Heads, Rhodes Lifters, etc) back in 1987. They're all good parts that came out when the #2 bore got a hairline crack on the major thrust side. I'd sonic check your block before considering going 60 over. I'm finally getting around to "reblocking" this spare motor with a 0.030 RB block I picked up from a member here and I'm throwing Eagle Rods into it so the old pistons, pins and rods are all headed to eBay if you aren't interested. This stuff is pretty light so you'll have to rebalance with your crank. My machinist recommended I reuse the LY Rods with new bolts at the power level of this build but I decided to invest a little more in case I ever put better heads and a bigger cam on it. Back in the day, I cut most of the lawns in my neighborhood so I know what that's like. I'll help pay it forward if your boys are interested in Mopars (none of my kids are). I just dug up a picture of the rods and pistons out of my pictures on paper from film archive so you can see the parts. The pistons have mild carbon buildup from maybe 2500 street miles but I assume that your kids can scrub These parts look fine. And before anybody PMs me asking for the rods, I'm only extending this deal to "gss" and his boys.
Last edited by rumblefish72; 09/14/17 01:41 AM. Reason: forgot to add picture
1972 Pro-Street 'Cuda, 500" Eagle stoker B Block, Eddy RPM heads, Victor Manifold, 850 Mighty Demon, Hemi 4 Speed, Dana 60 w/4.88 gears - Built by Hansen Racing Middlesex - NJ
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Re: 440 build
[Re: rumblefish72]
#2370993
09/14/17 11:11 PM
09/14/17 11:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,123 State, country, etc.
gss
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,123
State, country, etc.
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If you decide to (or need to) go to 0.060" over, PM me. I have a nice set of 10.25 to 1 Venolia Pistons with 0.990 pins and factory LY rods (bushed to 990 on the small end) that you can have for the cost of shipping. I built almost that exact same RB motor (MP 509 cam, ported Stage IV Heads, Rhodes Lifters, etc) back in 1987. They're all good parts that came out when the #2 bore got a hairline crack on the major thrust side. I'd sonic check your block before considering going 60 over. I'm finally getting around to "reblocking" this spare motor with a 0.030 RB block I picked up from a member here and I'm throwing Eagle Rods into it so the old pistons, pins and rods are all headed to eBay if you aren't interested. This stuff is pretty light so you'll have to rebalance with your crank. My machinist recommended I reuse the LY Rods with new bolts at the power level of this build but I decided to invest a little more in case I ever put better heads and a bigger cam on it. Back in the day, I cut most of the lawns in my neighborhood so I know what that's like. I'll help pay it forward if your boys are interested in Mopars (none of my kids are). I just dug up a picture of the rods and pistons out of my pictures on paper from film archive so you can see the parts. The pistons have mild carbon buildup from maybe 2500 street miles but I assume that your kids can scrub These parts look fine. And before anybody PMs me asking for the rods, I'm only extending this deal to "gss" and his boys. PM sent
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Re: 440 build
[Re: gss]
#2481268
04/11/18 09:03 PM
04/11/18 09:03 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,721 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,721
Bend,OR USA
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Is the 8915PT the head gasket of choice for a 10.5:1 engine? Also, I don't see any valley pan gaskets with the heat crossover blocked. Does anyone still make them? Thanks! Fel Pro still sells the valley pan with no heat crossover passage in them,Fel Pro part # 1215 As far as head gasket part #s you probably mean the 8519PT which is the common Fel Pro replacement Perma torque part #, the 1009 will also work on stock bore 440 motors up to .040 over size well, after that it depends on the heads and blocks used if the 1009 will protrude into the combustion chamber. The 1009head gasket has a 4.410 bore size according to the Fel Pro specs on that head gasket, the 8519PT is a little bigger than that, maybe by .060 to .100 IHTHs
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 440 build
[Re: rumblefish72]
#2481287
04/11/18 09:42 PM
04/11/18 09:42 PM
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Superfreak
Unregistered
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Superfreak
Unregistered
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If you decide to (or need to) go to 0.060" over, PM me. I have a nice set of 10.25 to 1 Venolia Pistons with 0.990 pins and factory LY rods (bushed to 990 on the small end) that you can have for the cost of shipping. I built almost that exact same RB motor (MP 509 cam, ported Stage IV Heads, Rhodes Lifters, etc) back in 1987. They're all good parts that came out when the #2 bore got a hairline crack on the major thrust side. I'd sonic check your block before considering going 60 over. I'm finally getting around to "reblocking" this spare motor with a 0.030 RB block I picked up from a member here and I'm throwing Eagle Rods into it so the old pistons, pins and rods are all headed to eBay if you aren't interested. This stuff is pretty light so you'll have to rebalance with your crank. My machinist recommended I reuse the LY Rods with new bolts at the power level of this build but I decided to invest a little more in case I ever put better heads and a bigger cam on it. Back in the day, I cut most of the lawns in my neighborhood so I know what that's like. I'll help pay it forward if your boys are interested in Mopars (none of my kids are). I just dug up a picture of the rods and pistons out of my pictures on paper from film archive so you can see the parts. The pistons have mild carbon buildup from maybe 2500 street miles but I assume that your kids can scrub These parts look fine. And before anybody PMs me asking for the rods, I'm only extending this deal to "gss" and his boys. This is absolutely awesome, This is part of what makes the hobby great.
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Re: 440 build
[Re: gss]
#2484450
04/18/18 12:22 AM
04/18/18 12:22 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,123 State, country, etc.
gss
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,123
State, country, etc.
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This is the .509 cam I removed from the 440. It has maybe 1500 miles on it. As you can see there is a flaw on the lobe. The corresponding lifter is also pictured, and looks perfect. This is the closing side of the lobe. My machinist, who has never steered me wrong, says it is fine to run. I have never been one to reuse a cam, even if it is perfect, so I am reluctant. My kids want to use it, mainly because the money to replace it would have to come from some other part of the project.
Would we be crazy to use it?
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Re: 440 build
[Re: Jerry]
#2484455
04/18/18 12:42 AM
04/18/18 12:42 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,721 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,721
Bend,OR USA
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if that cam wears out, you will have to tear the whole engine down again and reassemble. cams aren't that expensive. I would swap it now while its apart I would buy a better cam than the old one BTW,I don't like, recommend or use any of the old Mopar purple shaft cams in anything I build
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 04/18/18 12:42 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 440 build
[Re: gss]
#2485209
04/19/18 06:25 PM
04/19/18 06:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
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I think the Comp XE275HL will outrun that 509 cam every day. If that isn't enough, the XE285HL will definitely school the .509. The new MP price on the 509 cam is obscene. It is available in the 108 LSA original version and also in a 114LSA version to tame the idle a bit. But it still has lazy lift rates and far too much duration for the lift. My R.
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Re: 440 build
[Re: dogdays]
#2485248
04/19/18 08:26 PM
04/19/18 08:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,123 State, country, etc.
gss
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,123
State, country, etc.
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I think the Comp XE275HL will outrun that 509 cam every day. If that isn't enough, the XE285HL will definitely school the .509. The new MP price on the 509 cam is obscene. It is available in the 108 LSA original version and also in a 114LSA version to tame the idle a bit. But it still has lazy lift rates and far too much duration for the lift. My R. Yeah you could get a roller for the price of that .509. Comp sells what looks like an exact replica for $200 though. Thanks for the reply, I will look at those Comp Cams cams. I think they may be testing the limits of the factory non-adjustable rockers.
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Re: 440 build
[Re: lewtot184]
#2485639
04/20/18 03:21 PM
04/20/18 03:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,123 State, country, etc.
gss
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,123
State, country, etc.
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for me the biggest issue would be do you want to run pump gas or not. I already have a set of pistons ready to go, so it will be okay on 91 octane.
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