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Engine building: what's commonly overlooked? #2365346
09/04/17 06:58 PM
09/04/17 06:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 640
Graz, Austria
DGS Offline OP
mopar
DGS  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 640
Graz, Austria
what are the most commonly overlooked steps/items when building an engine? Such as forgetting to take a measurement or forgetting to install an oil plug.

Re: Engine building: what's commonly overlooked? [Re: DGS] #2365353
09/04/17 07:13 PM
09/04/17 07:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,203
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Offline
"Little"John

Joined: Feb 2005
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PA.
How important it is to clean, clean, and clean again.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Engine building: what's commonly overlooked? [Re: DGS] #2365355
09/04/17 07:20 PM
09/04/17 07:20 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,260
New Mexico
A
Adobedude Offline
pro stock
Adobedude  Offline
pro stock
A

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,260
New Mexico
$$$$ and more $$$$


2001 Dodge Dakota
408 All Motor
11.27 @ 117.83 mph
2017 NM Mopar Challenge Series Champion.
Re: Engine building: what's commonly overlooked? [Re: Adobedude] #2365366
09/04/17 07:41 PM
09/04/17 07:41 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,666
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
amxautox Offline
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
amxautox  Offline
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,666
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
Originally Posted By Adobedude
$$$$ and more $$$$
And just how much overtime at work is needed to get that $$$$.$$$.

Took 6 months of CONSECUTIVE weekend overtime AND every workday to do the AMX, with more weekend work now and then after that. Yes it was more than just the engine but still, it'll cost more than you'll first figure.


Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

author unknown

Re: Engine building: what's commonly overlooked? [Re: pittsburghracer] #2365367
09/04/17 07:42 PM
09/04/17 07:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,769
Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
Mr. Helpful
CMcAllister  Offline
Mr. Helpful
C

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Fulton County, PA
Originally Posted By pittsburghracer
How important it is to clean, clean, and clean again.


This. And take nothing for granted.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Engine building: what's commonly overlooked? [Re: CMcAllister] #2365394
09/04/17 08:17 PM
09/04/17 08:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237
North Central, Indiana
Roughbird72 Offline
pro stock
Roughbird72  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237
North Central, Indiana
Originally Posted By CMcAllister
Originally Posted By pittsburghracer
How important it is to clean, clean, and clean again.


This. And take nothing for granted.

iagree


72 Plymouth Roadrunner 11.08@123.25
Re: Engine building: what's commonly overlooked? [Re: DGS] #2365399
09/04/17 08:21 PM
09/04/17 08:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda Offline
master
sgcuda  Offline
master

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Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
Thanks to Fast68plymouth, I just found out how critical pushrod length is.


[image][/image]
Re: Engine building: what's commonly overlooked? [Re: DGS] #2365403
09/04/17 08:35 PM
09/04/17 08:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,815
Sobieski Wi
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bee1971 Offline
master
bee1971  Offline
master
B

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Posts: 2,815
Sobieski Wi
Patience

Because I have none , especially when told something completely different


How long should it take from dropping a short block off at your engine rebuilder

Them ordering all parts

Machine work on that block

Assembly of that short block


Time to get the Snowmobiles out soon


Last edited by bee1971; 09/04/17 08:38 PM.

1971 Dodge Charger Superbee
2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded
Siberian Huskies
Re: Engine building: what's commonly overlooked? [Re: DGS] #2365414
09/04/17 08:55 PM
09/04/17 08:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,515
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline
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F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,515
So. Burlington, Vt.
My approach is.......assume none of it is right, or that any of it fits.

Don't be surprised if everything needs to be tweaked/fixed/massaged/adjusted.

In many cases, you're assembling a pile of parts that were never even in the same room until they arrived at your place, much less have been all bolted together and expected to actually run and live and make power.

I'm still surprised pretty often by some of the stuff I get that's made wrong and doesn't fit properly.

If you're trying to make some power, and you're intent on putting the motor together yourself.......try and learn.....and really understand.....what you're doing with regards to degreeing the cam.......especially if it's a custom grind.
There is every chance lining up the dots will not have the cam installed at the desired c/l.

Every time I hear someone give the advice to just "advance the cam" I just cringe.
This is often being given to someone who didn't degree the cam in the first place.....but they're being told to advance it(advance it to where from where?)
Know where your cam is installed, and leave that question mark out of the equation.

Along the same lines, verify the TDC mark on the damper is aligned with the "0" on the timing tab.



68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Engine building: what's commonly overlooked? [Re: pittsburghracer] #2365415
09/04/17 08:55 PM
09/04/17 08:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,342
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,342
Bend,OR USA
Originally Posted By pittsburghracer
How important it is to clean, clean, and clean again.

iagree engine assembly is like brain surgery, it is absolutely impossible to keep it to clean work


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Engine building: what's commonly overlooked? [Re: DGS] #2365416
09/04/17 08:56 PM
09/04/17 08:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
A big block or a SB
wave

Re: Engine building: what's commonly overlooked? [Re: bee1971] #2365420
09/04/17 09:00 PM
09/04/17 09:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,203
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Offline
"Little"John

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Posts: 20,203
PA.
Originally Posted By bee1971
Patience

Because I have none , especially when told something completely different


How long should it take from dropping a short block off at your engine rebuilder

Them ordering all parts

Machine work on that block

Assembly of that short block


Time to get the Snowmobiles out soon






When I was 20 years old I waited 13 months for one from a local mopar EXPERT. After I picked it up from him I told him I would never wait for an engine again, and never have. It takes me 2-7 days to get get my blocks machined then I take over doing everything else myself. Best thing I've ever done was learn how to build engines. At 61 years old I taught myself (with a Friends help) how to do my own transmissions.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Engine building: what's commonly overlooked? [Re: DGS] #2365453
09/04/17 09:51 PM
09/04/17 09:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,804
McGregor,Iowa 52157
5
500ciDuster Offline
top fuel
500ciDuster  Offline
top fuel
5

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Posts: 1,804
McGregor,Iowa 52157
I agree with everything but have helped people with oil leaks that were from loose or missing oil galley plugs at the back of the block and rear seals that were installed backward

Re: Engine building: what's commonly overlooked? [Re: DGS] #2365478
09/04/17 10:29 PM
09/04/17 10:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 610
Boise
M
Moparteacher Offline
mopar
Moparteacher  Offline
mopar
M

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Posts: 610
Boise
Spend the money and purchase the good stuff the first time around.
Wear new nitrile gloves when handling the bearings.
Take up the gap between con-rods with a feeler gauge when torquing.
Lubricate the piston pins and cylinder walls prior to assembly.
Soak the timing chain in oil for several hours prior to install. Some say to boil in synthetic oil.
You can assemble with nothing other than motor oil. Special grease and assembly lubes are not required, but usually don't hurt. Cam break-in is an exception.
Use a micrometer/caliper/ect. to measure crank journals and bearing bores. Then learn how to subtract numbers. Leave plastigauge to the Chevy guys.
Thread chase all holes and clean prior to final cleaning.
Install cylinder head on block without gasket prior to assembly. Confirm alignment dowel doesn't bottom out and hold head up off surface.
Clean block with heavy concentration of soap and water after machining. Brake clean doesn't remove metal flake from cylinder walls.

Probably more than you asked for but I can't help myself.

Re: Engine building: what's commonly overlooked? [Re: DGS] #2365489
09/04/17 10:48 PM
09/04/17 10:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,100
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
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A

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Posts: 31,100
Oregon
Originally Posted By DGS
what are the most commonly overlooked steps/items when building an engine? Such as forgetting to take a measurement or forgetting to install an oil plug.


Most common overlooked item is documentation. Very few people actually keep track of part numbers used, dimensions, clearances, etc. After a few months they don't remember what valve springs they used, what the bearing clearances are, what the ring gap was set at, which parts they used, etc. Then when they have a problem they have to start over.

Re: Engine building: what's commonly overlooked? [Re: Moparteacher] #2365490
09/04/17 10:49 PM
09/04/17 10:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,559
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
I Live Here
fourgearsavoy  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,559
Rittman Ohio
If you are building a stroker mock up the entire engine without rings and gaskets to check all clearances and measurements before your final cleaning and assembly. Then when you have done all your final measurements and grinding on the block and heads for pushrod and connecting rod clearance take it apart and clean it all again. Keep cleaning it until the white paper towel comes clean when wiping all your fingerprints off of everything.
I always fit the cam first before anything else goes into the engine. Finally NEVER EVER install an oil pump out of the box without deburring and cleaning the passages first. I always "port and polish" my oil pump passages with a small dremel tool when I clean it and make sure the relief valve works smoothly.
Building your own engine is just about the most rewarding thing you can do for yourself twocents
Gus beer


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: Engine building: what's commonly overlooked? [Re: DGS] #2365493
09/04/17 10:49 PM
09/04/17 10:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,889
MI, usa
dvw Offline
master
dvw  Offline
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MI, usa
I've always built all my own stuff. Nothing is perfect. Knowing what is good enough and what isn't is crucial. Patience, if its wrong now, fix it. Once its as clean as you can get it there needs to be no interruption during the assembly stages.
Doug

Re: Engine building: what's commonly overlooked? [Re: dvw] #2365496
09/04/17 10:52 PM
09/04/17 10:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,203
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Offline
"Little"John

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,203
PA.
Leave the "beer drinking" for the winners circle pictures.

Or late night around the campfire at the track with Friends.

Last edited by pittsburghracer; 09/04/17 10:53 PM.

1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Engine building: what's commonly overlooked? [Re: AndyF] #2365498
09/04/17 10:54 PM
09/04/17 10:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,559
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
I Live Here
fourgearsavoy  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,559
Rittman Ohio
Originally Posted By AndyF
Originally Posted By DGS
what are the most commonly overlooked steps/items when building an engine? Such as forgetting to take a measurement or forgetting to install an oil plug.


Most common overlooked item is documentation. Very few people actually keep track of part numbers used, dimensions, clearances, etc. After a few months they don't remember what valve springs they used, what the bearing clearances are, what the ring gap was set at, which parts they used, etc. Then when they have a problem they have to start over.

I was trying to find the engine build sheet from the SA engine book to copy. I have found it before but I cant find it now.
It has the most complete list of items to check that you wil ever need.
Gus beer


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: Engine building: what's commonly overlooked? [Re: fourgearsavoy] #2365512
09/04/17 11:21 PM
09/04/17 11:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
R
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
RapidRobert  Offline
Circle Track
R

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
Mockup the eng complete from head to toe with gaskets. barely snug the heads so you can still use em. Have the gaskets dry. confirm that everything/all parts fit dead on. Have all your mods/tricks/additions/checks finished. then dissassemble & clean/oil & go back together. there is nothing worse than haveing to make chips on something in the middle of your final assy when something ain't right.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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