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Re: 1970 440 HP Vs HP2 ?? [Re: VCODE] #23247
01/26/06 02:47 PM 01/26/06 02:47 PM
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Dreaming of the 808
AZ_A12_BEE Offline
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Quote:

So what does the B stamped on the top of my pad mean



Im not sure what B means, mine has an upside down B on it, service manual only lists an A which means .20 over pistons

69.5 A12 Bee, first purchased in 1976, car 169 on registry 69 Coronet R/T 440/4 spd 69 Coronet 500 Conv H code 383 4bbl/auto 37 Plymouth PU Find your spot on earth and ride it.
Re: 1970 440 HP Vs HP2 ?? [Re: AZ_A12_BEE] #23248
01/26/06 02:51 PM 01/26/06 02:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,375
White Plains, NY
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Yes, That's like mine a sideways B

Mom & Dad let me buy a brand new 70 Challenger R/T 440 Six-Pack Super Trac Pack when I was 17

(Robert what is a 440 Six-Pack)
Re: 1970 440 HP Vs HP2 ?? [Re: InViolent] #23249
01/26/06 02:51 PM 01/26/06 02:51 PM
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Dreaming of the 808
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Quote:

I guess another wat to put it..."When did the 440-4 and 440+6 share the same rod/balancer part number?"




all years, 69 did not use a rod/ballancer any different than the 69 440 4V, but the 69 did not use the larger rods that the later years did, thats why the 69 package was faster, lighter rods spun faster

69.5 A12 Bee, first purchased in 1976, car 169 on registry 69 Coronet R/T 440/4 spd 69 Coronet 500 Conv H code 383 4bbl/auto 37 Plymouth PU Find your spot on earth and ride it.
Re: 1970 440 HP Vs HP2 ?? [Re: InViolent] #23250
01/26/06 03:16 PM 01/26/06 03:16 PM
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Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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DPelletier Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

My 1970 U-code Cuda is stamped HP2 and is original #'s motor(partial vin on motor). Car has a harmonic balancer that resembles a cast crank. All 440-4 and 440-6 used the heavy six pack rods and in turn used a externally balanced crank....




Now wait a minute! I thought 70-71 only did the 440-4V HP use the same balancer as the 440+6. In 69, wasn't the 440+6 the only engine to use this configuaration? Did the Forged crank 440's in 72-74 use the same balancer?

I guess another wat to put it..."When did the 440-4 and 440+6 share the same rod/balancer part number?"

And finally...how can I identify a "Six-Pack" Rod?

Thanks



Answer: Always. The reason is that 69.5 6-Pack cars didn't use "6-Pack" rods, either! They used LY rods IIRC.

6 pack rods are 920 grams vs. 860 grams for the LY's. I believe the 6-Pack rods are part number 2950906.

Dave

1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: 1970 440 HP Vs HP2 ?? [Re: VCODE] #23251
01/26/06 03:17 PM 01/26/06 03:17 PM
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U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

Yes, That's like mine a sideways B



something on the block is oversize to fix a mess up during machining operation , has nothing to do with identifying if its a 6pk block or not .
Re: 1970 440 HP Vs HP2 ?? [Re: AZ_A12_BEE] #23252
01/26/06 03:19 PM 01/26/06 03:19 PM
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Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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DPelletier Offline
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Dang. Beat me to it. That's what happens when I post at work! Darn customers interrupting me in the middle of a post!



Dave

1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: 1970 440 HP Vs HP2 ?? [Re: JohnRR] #23253
01/26/06 03:19 PM 01/26/06 03:19 PM
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Dreaming of the 808
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Quote:

something on the block is oversize to fix a mess up buring machining operation



Correct, but I wonder why the sevice manual doesnt list a B only an A

69.5 A12 Bee, first purchased in 1976, car 169 on registry 69 Coronet R/T 440/4 spd 69 Coronet 500 Conv H code 383 4bbl/auto 37 Plymouth PU Find your spot on earth and ride it.
Re: 1970 440 HP Vs HP2 ?? [Re: DPelletier] #23254
01/26/06 03:21 PM 01/26/06 03:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
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Kenmore, New York
InViolent Offline
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Thanks for the info. I feel smarter now for some reason

But I want to clarify....After 71, did all forged crank 440's use the heavy rods and external balancer?
Re: 1970 440 HP Vs HP2 ?? [Re: InViolent] #23255
01/26/06 03:23 PM 01/26/06 03:23 PM
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JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

Thanks for the info. I feel smarter now for some reason

But I want to clarify....After 71, did all forged crank 440's use the heavy rods and external balancer?



all 440 hps did up into 73 , maybe 74 ?
Re: 1970 440 HP Vs HP2 ?? [Re: InViolent] #23256
01/26/06 04:11 PM 01/26/06 04:11 PM
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Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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DPelletier Offline
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Quote:

Thanks for the info. I feel smarter now for some reason

But I want to clarify....After 71, did all forged crank 440's use the heavy rods and external balancer?



Yes, but '70 to '75 (all HP and trucks), not '71 and up.

Dave

Last edited by DPelletier; 01/26/06 04:13 PM.
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: 1970 440 HP Vs HP2 ?? [Re: JohnRR] #23257
01/26/06 04:17 PM 01/26/06 04:17 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Yes, That's like mine a sideways B



something on the block is oversize to fix a mess up during machining operation , has nothing to do with identifying if its a 6pk block or not .



a B means the crank was turned .010 undersized on both the mains and the rods by the factory
Re: 1970 440 HP Vs HP2 ?? [Re: DPelletier] #23258
01/26/06 04:24 PM 01/26/06 04:24 PM
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Kingsburg Calif.
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Quote:



........which means you can't use the rods and balancer to determine if a motor is a 6-Pack or not. All HP motors used "6-Pack" rods and balancers (which make you wonder why the heck they called them "6-Pack" rods).

Dave



I've wondered that myself more times than I have fingers to count on.

Re: 1970 440 HP Vs HP2 ?? [Re: DPelletier] #23259
01/26/06 04:26 PM 01/26/06 04:26 PM
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damper was different on 72 up....lighter low compression pistons...damper looks like early damper ....I have two original complete 73 hp 440 =forged crank , big rod ,low comp. pistons ,standard damper .. from 73 Road Runner and 73 Charger

Re: 1970 440 HP Vs HP2 ?? [Re: tampabucs1] #23260
01/26/06 04:31 PM 01/26/06 04:31 PM
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Overpriced Housing Central
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My 70 6 pack GTX and Bee both original engines had HP stamps, no HP2.

My 70 U code GTX was an HP2.

Re: 1970 440 HP Vs HP2 ?? [Re: tampabucs1] #23261
01/26/06 04:32 PM 01/26/06 04:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
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Dreaming of the 808
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Quote:

damper was different on 72 up....lighter low compression pistons...damper looks like early damper



that would explain the smaller balancer on this 72 440 HP that I have, its never been apart that I know of, other that the parts I robbed of it and I have had it for almost 25 years

69.5 A12 Bee, first purchased in 1976, car 169 on registry 69 Coronet R/T 440/4 spd 69 Coronet 500 Conv H code 383 4bbl/auto 37 Plymouth PU Find your spot on earth and ride it.
Re: 1970 440 HP Vs HP2 ?? [Re: JohnRR] #23262
01/26/06 04:32 PM 01/26/06 04:32 PM
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tampabucs1 Offline
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my factory service manual says...
maltese cross and X = .010 under crank
with M-10 =all mains under .010
R-10 = all rods under .010 ????????????

Re: 1970 440 HP Vs HP2 ?? [Re: tampabucs1] #23263
01/26/06 04:43 PM 01/26/06 04:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
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Kenmore, New York
InViolent Offline
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Please Tech Archive this thread after it's said and done!
Re: 1970 440 HP Vs HP2 ?? [Re: InViolent] #23264
01/26/06 05:22 PM 01/26/06 05:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,183
eganville ont
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eganville ont
hi the 70-71hp or hp2 440 6bbl 0r 4bbl are externally balanced . That's why on an automatic car there are weights on the torque converter and on a 4speed car it has a 10.5 inch flywheel with holes drilled in it.
In '72-'75 the hp motors are neutrally balanced-they don't have any external balancing systems. Which is why it has a thin balancer on it.


Plymouth's gonna getcha! There are 3 things that will live forever, cockroaches, Keith Richards, & slant 6 Dusters 71 gtx 440 4speed air grabber blue on blue with white vinyl roof
Re: 1970 440 HP Vs HP2 ?? [Re: tampabucs1] #23265
01/26/06 06:03 PM 01/26/06 06:03 PM
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Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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DPelletier Offline
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Quote:

damper was different on 72 up....lighter low compression pistons...damper looks like early damper ....I have two original complete 73 hp 440 =forged crank , big rod ,low comp. pistons ,standard damper .. from 73 Road Runner and 73 Charger



Good info. I've been spending my time researching 6-Packs only, sorry for the error.
So then it would seem that;

- '69 1/2 440-6 = LY rods, internally balanced

- '70-'71 440-6's AND HP 440's = 6 pack rods and externally balanced

- '72-'75 440 HP = 6 pack rods, internally balanced.

Dave

1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: 1970 440 HP Vs HP2 ?? [Re: InViolent] #23266
01/26/06 06:05 PM 01/26/06 06:05 PM
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Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:

Please Tech Archive this thread after it's said and done!



That might save having this discussion everytime someone advertises a 440-6 block for sale!


Dave

1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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