Again.......without using some sort of solid, or bottomed, or blocked lifter, looking at you're springs isn't going to tell you anything.

You set you're preload at say, 3/4 of a turn. How far is the plunger from being bottomed at that point? Cuz whatever it is, multiply it by the rocker ratio, and that's how much lift you're losing when the lifter is at peak lobe lift.

The oil I was referencing is made by "Driven", formerly called Joe Gibbs.
I'm also a fan of Brad Penn oils.

I have freshened several sets of heads using the Comp 26120 springs, and they are made from very durable, premium material. I've had some here that had over 10,000 miles on them and over 400 1/4 mile passes, run on an aggressive solid lifter cam, and those hadn't lost 15lbs.
If yours are down 25lbs in a few thousand miles...... something is very unhappy.

As for why do I recommend Morels?
Why does anyone recommend anything?
Good past experiences.
If you were looking for a small car I'd tell you to buy a Honda Civic.........because I've had a really good experience with mine.

There is a thread over on fbbo about a guy who just had a Hughes(morel) hyd roller lifter collapse.
There are questions, theories, etc.......until he mentions what his spring pressure is.......like 220/550.
Well, those lifters are rated for 360lbs open, so the mystery is over.

I responded in your other thread about the possible pitfalls with trying to run lobe profiles that require big spring pressure and hyd roller lifters.

I know of several builds that used modest lobes and the std Morel lifters, and kept the spring pressures reasonable........ and those combos seem to survive just fine.

If you're tired of working on it........that's the direction I would look to.

If you are competent at all with that caliper, I don't see how you could be off by more than .010(meaning the installed height is about 1.825)......... and yet it sounds like you still think when you try that new height mic the number is gonna come up around 1.880.

I guess we'll see who is doing the better job here.
If the height mic shows something close to 1.825 you did a good job, and the head assembler didn't.

If the number is closer to 1.880, then the head assembler did a good job, and you didn't.

There was a rumor circulated at the family gathering today that several companies do in fact send trucks all over for a small fee, taking with them items you find mystifying so a wizard on the receiving end can decode the hidden magic within. Then those same trucks find their way back to your door.

YES!!!! take the heads off & send them to fast68plymouth !!!!!!!

I also have the 26120 comp springs & had to use the gold +.050 locks to get 1.880 installed height.

I am not looking at springs to tell me anything regarding current issue of lifter collapse, and that only as a result of a concern voiced that possibility put forth of coil bind caused lifter collapse was result of possible insufficient spring install height.

In all of this, I became curious of spring pressures, furthermore the possibility that excessive pressure may be root cause,,,,among many other possibilities enumerated,,,so decided I would like to understand more about pressures and bring them back to recommended specs. Now certain they are not anywhere related to my issue,,,however definitely appear related to John's,,,so had me wondering. Spring height and bind concern I got from you which got me into all that research and understanding. Very interesting stuff.

i do doubt very much that my height measurements are correct...Attempting to do with a caliper and a spring in place with complete accuracy is beyond my pay grade,,,,,particularly when there are websites telling readers to measure from the head surface. Likely why the installed height tool was invented that you photo'd and posted when testing John's spring height on his heads.

I am well aware that I could have just slapped another pair of lifters to replace my failed lifter. This experience and research as to cause of failure has proven far more interesting.

Oh yes, was at John's most all day yesterday to offer moral support to he and Dwayne(his name too) as they installed the new Eddy Performer heads on Dwayne's low block stroker that you had give the do-over treatment for Dwayne. Lovely port gasket matching.

One thing that Moe, Curly, and Larry learned that we won't soon forget. Just why the valley cover turkey pan for a 440 RB that had been ordered up from Summit, after 20 minutes of fumbling about and a few choice words will not fit on a low deck block. 😂

Other than that, it was a good day.

Still do not understand if decreasing spring height via shimming to up valve close pressure
has any downsides except possible coil bind.

You still have no idea of whether or not coil bind could be an issue here.
You have not checked the net lift, with a solid lifter, to determine what that is.

This is really very basic stuff here.
You need to know the net lift at the valve with full spring pressure, installed height, and actual coil bind height.
Without knowing for sure what those three things are, you're guessing at best.

"If"(and this is a big if) the actual coil bind height of your springs is at the spec, then based on what I've seen in this thread so far, I think your springs are probably running at about .020-.030 from coil bind.

The heads don't need to be removed, or sent to me.
The height mic will be pressed into service soon, and then we'll all know for sure if his heads are like all the other bb mopar rpm heads or not.

The "what I would have done" answer is, after hearing the story and seeing the heads didn't have the +.050 locks is........ bought some Morel std lifters, Comp 614 locks, and some Driven HR10w40 oil, and installed the locks and new lifters, checked for pushrods length(ordered new if necessary), and bolted it all back together, changed the oil, and went back to happily motoring along.

And, just to throw another wrench into the works.....

Since you'll be pulling some springs to use the height mic anyway, I suggest you carefully test the spring pressure first, and make note of the pressure and the installed height for each.

Then bring those springs to a shop with a quality bench top tester(preferably a shop that also has a calibration spring), and see how their results compare with yours.

I have been completely out of action in the garage due to a rather severe low back issue. However have been following everyone along on the forum to see how others are combating their own issues.

Have ordered up a couple of other valve train tools from LSM including a bench too valve spring pressure tester and their clever tool for safely removing valve springs. Have spent a few bucks, but far less than would have spent sending the car to a shop to end up with charges likely a multiple of what the tools set me back and they I will have forever and perhaps can help some local Mopar and other friends.

After my extensive research and technical expertise from this forum, I have concluded based mainly from information, tips, insights posted by Porter that coil bind will prove to be the cause of lifter collapse that I have experienced on 3 occasions. I suspect the valve train has been running for some 3,000 miles running on the ragged edge of coil bind,,,,not enough to be catastrophic immediately but under so far unknown caused rare circumstances.

I base this on the following.

1. Porter strongly recommends .050 part number CC 614-16 keepers which I do not have. He has repeatedly asserted he has always required them with beehive spring, Ede head builds. I have ordered them up.

2. Attempting to measure install height of my springs using a caliper to do so measuring from head surface to bottom side of retainer, he noted that this measurement must be done from the top of the spring seat shim instead. This lessens the install height measurement by ,050 from 1.880 to 1.825 or so, which I did measure myself with the CC supplied spring height tool that I purchased. Given he is certainly correct,,,this would in itself cause the spring at full valve open to have less than recommended.060 gap between coils of the spring.

3, it is likely that the machinist who set up my Ede heads and switched out their springs for the beehives relied upon some faulty information that a number of websites and even some cam suppliers say, that spring height is from the head surface to the bottom side of the spring retainer.

As I have learned and Porter has always known(likely too most professionals that practice in this field also know) that measurement is taken from the topside of the spring seat shim.

I did measure using CC this spring height using the CC supplied tool, micrometer,,,I call it the hand grenade given its shape,. Measured 1.825 exactly as Porter suggested.

Therefore keepers that raise the retainer ,050 should put all back on track and give a greater margin of error from any spring bind random happenstance that could crunch a lifter.

All of this I believe will be confirmed when I get an opportunity to experiment with my new bench spring pressure tester. And then also the replacement keepers that are on the way.

Incidentally I did post on the Engine and Tech segment of this forum seeking the best method to remove valve springs from a head while still mounted on the block. A wealth of very creative suggestions were posted,,,,rope trick,,,,although I suspect a wire such as an HDMI electronics cable or spark plug cable could be easier, air pressure,,,,but impossible to do on every cylinder on a BB E Body,,,and most interesting of all bring a certain combination of pistons to TDC to keep the valve ftom falling into the cylinders. Also some tips on using heavy grease and your wife's clothes pins.

I am certain that some eyes have completely glazed over. Warning, more to come later! Others are well advised to skip over to succeeding topics.

Well, you're sticking with it, and learning some things along the way.

You should have ordered one new spring when you ordered the 614's, so you'd be able to see just how much(or how little) your springs have changed from new.

Well, the quick and dirty for old springs is to check their free height against the published free height, and then against each other.

R.