i was wondering how much money is typically saved building your own motor rather than a shop doing all the work? The shop labour rate for a general machine shop in my area is $60 to $80 an hour. Last year i was quoted $1800 for a 360 build with stock bottom end with good bolts and kb pistions, comp cam XE 268, and an extra $900 if i wanted to go magnum heads with all the coversion stuff. I just picked up a running 94 360 so i am considering my first build my self, but just trying to figure out how much i would save doing so. I have all kinds of mics, calipers and indicators and snap guages and what i dont have i could borrow from work. I would farm out all machine work and then do the assembly myself. I am going to buy the magnum books from Larry Shepard for reference. Open to hear all suggestions.

None, if you build it wrong. It might end up even costing you more money than anticipated in the event of an "ooops."

Having all the correct tools is definitely a plus. Tackle a stock type rebuild, then move on to something wilder. Non stock parts that claim to be a bolt on rarely are. I could tell you a story about a core-shifted cam that almost cost me a motor, but I caught it during assembly.

Sure you can save money but it's the experience that you can't put a price on...

I personally take great pride in doing the work myself.

If you're just doing a stock rebuild, and you have a guide to follow, then feel confident that you can do a good job.

You can rebuild a stock engine with the most basic tools.

It's about as hard as rebuilding a lawnmower...

It's so easy...

$60-$80 an hour/a whole lot of pride/meticuolous attention to detail. Work something out with a skilled Mopar head to come over & guide/help you with the problem areas & is available for you to call with issues that can be handled over the phone.

You may make some mistakes on your first build, but this board can help your through it. I wish I had something like this when I first started. To me building your own motor serves several purposes. First, it is a blast to do. I have as much fun building motors as anything I do. Buy all the books and get advise from a good high performance machine shop. Secondly, I do a better job than all but the best shops. I take pride in my work. On stock rebuilds you will only save a minimum of $$ because they are not really hard to do for most shops. The last two motors I have taken apart, had several mistakes made by professional shops. Lastly, it is something that you can be proud of. If you have the capability to build an engine and it runs great, then you can take pride in the fact that not everyone is capable of doing that task. One of the most challenging motor programs I have ever been evolved in was my kids jr dragster engines. It may not sound like much, but to take a lawn mower engine producing 5 hp and make it into a big bore stroker with a .600 lift cam that has to be clearanced in more places than most motors have places. And then make it turn 8500 rpm and run a 7.90 @ 84 mph every pass, that takes more than you would think. So building the motors is more fun than a cost savings to me. Jump into with both feet. If something does not feel right going together, then ask the board. We'd be glad to help.

the first engine I ever built is the one in my dakota--383 stroked to almost 440, 500 hp, 535 tq. 3,000 miles so far and other than a cracked cylinder wall after the first 200 miles, it's been trouble free. the cracked cylinder wall would have happened even if a pro-shop built the engine. it's a 30 year old casting thats bored to the max.

I paid a machine shop to do the following things:

hot tank, clean, inspect the block
mill the decks and cylinders
check the alignment of the mains
install cam bearings
mock up crank/rod/piston, degree in the cam, check P to V clearance, and balance the whole thing.

I spec'ed out the stroker, rod length and compression height of the piston for the CR that I wanted,
picked the cam
picked the heads, intake and carb

assembled and shimmed the rocker gear with adjustable rockers, trimmed the bearings to fit, put it all together, took it back to the dyno to try and break it

I feel as if I built the motor myself and I'm happy about how it turned out, and I had a blast putting it together.

but, if you really think about it--I farmed out all the hard/tedious work. I didn't measure my clearances because I lack the precision tools and experience to use them properly. I didn't weigh anything for the balance job for the same reasons.

so, maybe I paid the shop to do it all and I just took care of final cleaning and assembly. The shop told me final assembly would have cost another $700, so I guess I saved $700 by doing it myself.

Plus whatever I saved by ordering the parts myself instead of through the shop to avoid the markup they put on parts they sell

I say to do it your-self, you will learn alot. I think you would save at least $500 to $1000.

What fun is any hobby if you are paying someone else to do everything? You might as well buy a finished car! I have some things done, but only if I don't have the tools or equiptment. I assemble my own engines, some were taken to machine shops (with various results) and some were not. I can say good and bad of both methods, I still have all 6 of the engines I did, and they all still run great after 20 years. Currently, I am rebuilding a '70 model 383 for my Super Bee. It was a good running engine, with little wear, a good base to start with. Everything is measuring up well so far, and this one is only getting re-ringed and new bearings. I bought a ridge reamer and learned not to get your knuckles in the way when coming around with the wrench! So I have made mistakes. Well yeah! I just started doing my own valve jobs, I bought an old Sioux valve seat grinder, and it has been really fun. Do what you think you can do right, but a good machinist is worth his weight in gold. As is a good bodyman...........apholsterer............you get my drift? If you want to try it, get books and read up and ask questions here, you will do fine, and most importantly you will enjoy it! That's the idea!

Gentlemen, lets take it easy on this guy. We all started somewhere building engines whether we were 10 years or 50 years old. This sight is to help other Mopar guys, we owe it to the guys that want to learn. Sure there are certain tools you need, but building a basic engine is not that difficult. Take you time, research and ask questions. That's what this hobby is all about. Just make sure you follow the tolerances required and check that everything moves freely as you put it together. And remember we all should learn from our mistakes. When in doubt ask, most builders will give you pointers. So get started and have some fun.

I do EVERYTHING on my 64 Polara myself, partly for the satisfaction and partly cause I don't won't to be one of those guys that just trailers his car around to get it built. I noticed you haven't really gotten any prices on builds yet, so I'll give you one. I have a 413 bored to 426 cubes,and with all the machine work and parts, I have about $2500 in my motor, but that includes NEW headers, aluminum intake, 750 Holley, Lunati cam, Crane springs and retainers, misc. The only stock/used parts were the block, pistons, rods, and heads. I very much enjoyed building it, though. I'm sure it would have cost at least twice that much to buy it built, but I don't know about having someone else put it together.

The machine shop I used charges $700 to assemble an engine. I put mine together myself and bought the right tools to measure clearances, measure spring install heights, degree wheel etc. Then I had some rework like I bent an oil ring once and things like that. I probably didn't save any when all was said and done but learned a lot. I say if you have the time and a garage to build it do it your self.

First it's fun. There is such a big resource here in knowledge and help. It's really hard to determine savings, but I'd probably say at least $1500. But that's really not the most important part. If you know what to check for, and this board can help there, you will KNOW that it been checked. Kind of a trust but verify thing. I've seen too many "issues" pop up with other peoples work. Work slow, be clean in the assembly and ask alot of questions. What will result is you can say "I did it". Lots of pride in that.

It is going to depend on how much you can do yourself. Parts are the least costly of the whole operation. It will depend a lot on how much machine work you have to have done. I know that I save a pile doing it myself.

I pay my brother to help me do mine because I don't trust any shop to put anything together.

Examples?

I just helped a neighbor take apart a 350 that a local shop built and they didn't clean the block very well so the crank, oil pump, and all the bearings are trashed. I have never seen grooves cut into everything like this motor had.

The last shop that bored my block over didn't clean anything either. He knicked my cam bearings so I pulled them out to replace them myself and found handfulls of dirt and metal shavings in the passages.

I bought most the tools to measure and check things myself. Most of these shops are paying a kid min. wage to clean stuff up before it goes together and they really don't care. Some of the people have never been to school to learn how to do the work properly. The pay is so low they just hire whoever wants to do the job.

If you're only going to build 1 motor EVER,I'd say have it done, but if you're going to do more motors later on (like most of us), buy the tools and do it yourself...at least you'll have the tools for the next motor and the cost will be much lower. Not to mention, maybe you can recover some of the tool costs buy assemblying motors for other people.

I think cost savings is a factor of who would have charged you to assemble, and if you can do it right so it doesnt need to come apart again. Somewhere int eh middle is your savings. I wouldnt pay Indy, or 98% of the shops I know in CT to assemble, because I know of issues with all but two of them. You have to realize, by assembling yourself, your take all responsibility for it. If the parts arent machined rigth and you didnt measure, it's your fault you didnt catch it. No shop warranties parts or labor when you assemble yourself. So get it right, or pay again. I do get paid by others to assemble, and in the past it's cost me more than twice what I charge because I missed something. It's the builders responsibility to catch other issues before things get bad. Ruined cams, broken rockers, bent pushrods, leaks, overheating, are all common place issues that crop up with do-it yourselfers. I am not tryign to discourage. I'm trying to show both sides of the coin. Yes, you feel better about it, I especially dislike checkbook racers who are egocentric about their car. Anyone can go fast with enough cash thrown at it. However, if and when soemthign goes wrong (I cite the camshafts issue, and the blaming of cam companies especially here) it is also YOUR fault. Not the parts'. There is a reason a good shop gets paid well. It's for the tools and the experience, in addition to the assumption of liability.

Thats a good point. If you put it together yourself you own it. The assembler is responsible for making sure all parts fit and work correctly together during assembly.

I used to do my own.Now I have my shop do them.My machinist is a guy that has to have perfection.That and the last short block he did was 1200 for labor total.That was decking line hone bore clean install all the soft plugs balance blueprint open up for 1/2 inch pickup fit rings redo the rods turn flywheel do my heads and put the lower end all together.Cost me about an extra 2oo bucks to have him do what I couldnt do at home.After I work on cars for 8 hours at work the last thing I want to do is do more at home.I do all the rest of the work myself.If you have a great machine shop like I have its worth the few extra bucks.Lets face it most here dont build engines everyday as a living.My machinist does.Thats the key a good shop.Rocky

There is only one way to know everything is right and that is to do it yourself. Otherwise you are doing nothing but accepting someones word it was built correctly. Plus it's fun and rewarding. Sounds like you have the tools to check clearances, just make sure to check EVERTHYING and you'll be fine. The savings are just an added bonus.

I'll do stock type rebuilds myself, well guess more like freshening up. Bearings, rings, gaskets, etc... when it comes time to build up, go with aftermarket parts(big money stuff) I let someone with alot more experience do it. Obviously you have to know what your doing, be able to read calipers and such, have all the equipment, etc...

If it's the first one, give it a shot. You might end up enjoying it.

If you enjoy hands on learning, you'll probably like it.

The worst that could happen is it becomes a tedious science project. If so, finish it up and don't do any more.

This is an excellent type of build to learn on. No radical cam with valve train issues,no piston to head issues,no oil system issues. Read everything,ask questions when your stuck. You will need a torque wrench,dial indicator,and a degree wheel. Measure everything. You may not need to know every measurement,but you should learn how to make them. Find someone local who has done it before to guide you. Every one of us who has built a engine had a 1st time just like you. Where in Ontario are you?
Doug

i think i am going to give it a shot. i am going to buy the books like i said and do the research before i start. I also have a LA 360 i can take apart first if i want just for practice. Sounds like the only tool i am missing is a degree wheel, but i could most likely borrow one or just buy one and have it for next time. I know how to measure and fit stuff from work so i think i am fine with that, and i know i will learn alot about how engines work after doing this. THe build i want to do is just a cam and pistons, with a good valve job and intake. Is there any other books i should be looking at other than the Larry shepard books on the magnum motors? I am located the st.thomas/london area on Ontario.

You might get a digital camera & take(many) pics both for your reference & to post them here if you get in a jam. This has saved my bacon many times as I do not have the photographic memory that I would like to think that I do.

I think I would try it myself ..I paid a machine shop almost 3600 to do my motor..ran good but never ran right when I took it apart the timeing chain looked to be worn out got a new chain almost 90.00 more dollars looks the same so now I am going to either use a tens. or gear drive...now when I say 3600 here is what they did..clean and check block,bore block,alain hone,cam bearing,freeze plugs,val job on heads,flow head,new rings,new bearing,new cam,oiland filter,install 3 heli coil,and degree cam,oh new timing chain,disassemble 1 motor,press 8 pistons on new rods I supplied rods,,picked it up was told no warr. its yours I dont own a machine shop or anything like that but 3600..now I plan to build it myself this time...did a 6 in a ford van and a318 in the duster years ago felt so good to know I had my hands on it and it is still running today....

My ....

I would say if this is a stocker rebuild with a touch bigger camshaft and no file-fit piston rings ... just put it together yourself - not to worry.

Now if you have to massage the pistons and cyl head combustion chambers ....THAT would be over most people's head here.

And that includes me !

I vote that you build it yourself. Here are some reasons
1.Great way to learn. Take your time, get some books, use resources like Moparts to ask questions.
2.Building your own motor gives you a sense of pride. Plus you'll have a better understanding of how your car works. This will allow you or give you confidence to do other work like maintanence, and eventually up the ladder to harder stuff like rearends and transmissions.
3.Fact is once, you do it yourself, you will know what it involves and if, in the future, you are willing to pay someone else to do it. Do it once in your life to know what to expect of yourself or others if you choose them to do it for you. (IE:what's it worth for someone else to do it). Hard to get ripped off when you have done it yourself and know what is involved.
4.There is probably a cost savings, maybe not so much on your first engine, but why not buy the tools and have them for life. Every guy likes hanging specialty tools on the pegboard..Its macho!.
5.You may make mistakes, but as long as you don't make the same mistakes over again, you will be fine. Life will always be another new "first" don't be intimidated. Sure there is a time and a place for you to farm out that big race motor or stroker motor. Sometimes there is good insurance in knowing a pro is building it. But plenty of guys here will say the pros do it right and just as many times we hear of silly "my machinist did this to me" stories. So it all is circular in the end.

I am gonna get some books off amazon today and start reading lot. I am gonna wait till the weather gets warmer to start disassembley so i am not fighting surface rust as much. I have a good camera so i will take alot of pics. I guess i wont know what it needs untill i open it up. I know i will most likely have cracked heads. I will most likely get EQ's if the stock ones are cracked. I am not looking to cut corners doing it myself but i think it would be alot better to do some of the work myself and take the labour cost savings to invest in tools needed for the job like you guys have said. I know this will not be the last motor i build if i enjoy it. I will also learn alot. I do have some car mechanic friends i could go to if i need help. Sounds like the first step is to take everything apart and send the heads to get checked and the block cleaned and checked and go from there.

Go for it...

Don't expect to save money
Don't be put off by delays
Don't get frustrated when you make a mistake
Don't hesitate to call some machine shops/engine builders for advice

You will come out of this process knowing exponentially more than you do right now.

My
Ken

What Ken said!!!!!!
Oh, here is a shot of my second valve job, just completed it a week ago on my ratty old 906 heads. .001 clearance on all guides, so I am running them. New springs, valves, seals and a fresh cut on the seat. Total cost.........$135.00

I built my first 340 in the living room of the trailer I was living in during 1975.
That engine took me to Montana and back in 1976 in my '72 Duster and it was still running strong when I sold the car in 1980.
Building an engine is really easy. There's nothing magical about it.
Just take your time, and make sure everything is clean. And, don't be afraid to ask questions.
Plus, when you hear that engine light for the first time after building it yourself, it is a great feeling.

When you tear down the old motor, don't just disassemble. Measure things! What is the crank end play, the compression height of the pistons, how do the bearings look, note any worn threads, etc.
When I build a motor, I always knock down all the sharp edges except the necessary ones before final cleaning. Makes assembly much easier on the hands.
Get a set of engine brushes for your clean up. Set up a clean space to assemble, and make sure you have all the tools and lubes handy. Build a checklist and follow it!

http://www.themotorbookstore.com/engine-blueprinting.html

http://www.thewarfields.com/HotRodBlogEngineAssy1.htm

http://www.wegnerautomotive2.com/SPEC_ENGINE/Spec%20Engine%20Assembly%20Check%20List.pdf

and many others


http://engineswaponline.com/joomla/discuss-swaps/94.html

I give you my 1st step on reassembly. Make sure the cam fits first. If the cam bearings are tight and you have to scape them its best to do it with a dry clean unoiled block so the scrapings can be blown out with air. The book won't tell you this.
Good luck,go for it.
Doug