Re: Oil shelf life question
[Re: MI_Custumz]
#2269341
03/14/17 02:19 PM
03/14/17 02:19 PM
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Butterscotch71
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Would keeping it in the unheated garage (I live in Michigan) matter vs the house? Yes for permeation. Moisture (vapor) travels from warm (moist) to cold (dry)...at least that's how it works in an insulated wall (and why you need a vapor retarder in wall construction in certain climates. Should be better in a controlled environment.
addict:to devote or surrender (oneself) to something habitually or obsessively ....hmmmm
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Re: Oil shelf life question
[Re: jcc]
#2269394
03/14/17 03:50 PM
03/14/17 03:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031 Erda, UT
67Charger
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I'm having a hard time accepting moisture entrapment of an oil filled sealed plastic container, to any amount, to be detrimental. Well, believe it. Moisture permeation through High Density Polyethylene (the stuff oil containers are made of) is a known fact. Introduction of moisture causes the calcium (part of the detergent package) to drop out of suspension. So the airborne moisture goes thru the plastic, but none of the oil comes out of the plastic, and once the moisture goes thru the plastic, it goes thruout the stagnant oil, and attacks/attaches to the calcium? My loss, I'm just not there yet. If for a simple test, if I immersed a sealed plastic oil container, I would see accelerated oil breakdown evidence? It has a lot to do with molecule size. Oil is a HUGE hydrocarbon chain, whereas water is a simple 3 atom molecule. The holes in the plastic bottle are miniscule, and the amount of water that travels through it is ALMOST immeasurable, but rest assured, it is happening. Different bottle plastics will permeate at different rates, think ketchup bottle versus milk jug. Easy example is a latex baloon. They will deflate naturally, as the air passes through the holes in the rubber molecules. Have you ever noticed how much faster a helium baloon deflates? It is because the helium atoms are TINY and pass through the holes much easier and faster. Mylar baloons will deflate much slower since the metallic surface has MUCH lower permeability compared to platic hydrocarbon chains. Dang sciency stuff...
Last edited by 67Charger; 03/14/17 03:51 PM.
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor 10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: Oil shelf life question
[Re: mikemee1331]
#2269440
03/14/17 05:30 PM
03/14/17 05:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
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How the conversation turned to permeation and absorption still boggles the mind. But yeah, it has a shelf life. because it's Moparts silly rabbit! There is a lot of BS in this thread.
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Re: Oil shelf life question
[Re: L.R Helbling]
#2269443
03/14/17 05:35 PM
03/14/17 05:35 PM
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https://www.reference.com/vehicles/motor-oils-shelf-life-e4589115d4577487I wanted to drill down to what is exactly the shelf life of multi grade oil. The above URL explains a lot of it and it really is nice to know for some of us who rush out to buy oil only to come home and then keep it on a shelf for 4 years. The OP did say he was going to keep it from Spring to Fall which is like 6 months. Hey no worries. How the conversation turned to permeation and absorption still boggles the mind. But yeah, it has a shelf life. That website is so wrong on the first 2 items, kerosene will last a heck of a lot longer than 2-5 years even sitting in a vented tank with water at the bottom. And motor oil will last way more than 5 years, way longer. More like 30 years at least because I have been using NOS motor oil since 1990, 5 different brands of oil. Not just one kind. I have used old oil in heavy duty diesel engines and then all the way to the smallest of generators. I don't have to read it on the web to know because I have been doing it.
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Re: Oil shelf life question
[Re: cudaman1969]
#2269520
03/14/17 07:04 PM
03/14/17 07:04 PM
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Like I said, oil stays oil, only the added stuff falls out. Even oil that has water, once heated, will evaporate out. This afternoon at work, before I posted on this thread. I took a 27 year old quart of Unocal76 20W-50 sealed and opened it and poured it into a white clean 3 gallon pail. I did it very carefully and checked it out several times as I was pouring it. There was absolutely no separation whatsoever and there was nothing on the bottom of the plastic quart container after at least 25 years of sitting in my work garage and I bet it sat in a warehouse somewhere before I got it. I work at/own a oil company and we stopped selling/retailing motor oil at about 1990. I have been using our old stock ever since. Most of that old stock was from the late 80s. I don't normally stop and scrutinize the oil as it comes out of the container but I did today. 27+year old oil, have built at least 3 old mopar motors with this oil and have never lost a new cam or any cam with it. All my motors are still running today that I built using this oil. I also used cases and cases of 15-20 year old rotella in heavy duty diesel engines for millions of miles with no problems. Have never lost a motor. Ran 16800 hours on the last in frame overhaul and the first 10000 hours were on old oil.
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Re: Oil shelf life question
[Re: Challenger 1]
#2269550
03/14/17 08:06 PM
03/14/17 08:06 PM
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I also have a 200 gallon motor oil tank in my shop that has been vented to the air for 25 years that gets filled about every 12 months. So a little humidity does not hurt the oil. Water and oil do not mix. In 25 years we have never had any moisture issues in our bulk motor oil tank and we pressure wash it clean on the outside some times along with the whole shop.
So what would happen if the plastic container lets in small amounts of air and moisture?
Last edited by Challenger 1; 03/16/17 05:55 PM.
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Re: Oil shelf life question
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2269579
03/14/17 09:06 PM
03/14/17 09:06 PM
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Spaceman Spiff
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Once again anecdotal experience wins out over science/chemistry. Science isn't infallible. do you have a link to any chemistry tests you have performed, on this subject?
526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
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Re: Oil shelf life question
[Re: MI_Custumz]
#2269611
03/14/17 10:10 PM
03/14/17 10:10 PM
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cudaman1969
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"also used cases and cases of 15-20 year old rotella in heavy duty diesel engines for millions of miles with no problems." Like to have a couple cases of the old stuff for my diesel truck And, who does the test, non other than the man selling the oil.
Last edited by cudaman1969; 03/14/17 10:17 PM.
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Re: Oil shelf life question
[Re: mikemee1331]
#2269653
03/14/17 11:05 PM
03/14/17 11:05 PM
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jcc
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How the conversation turned to permeation and absorption still boggles the mind. But yeah, it has a shelf life. because it's Moparts silly rabbit! Well, to recap, some "say" oil has a shelf life with little to back it up, some others "say" it has a shelf life with questionable reasoning, some "believe" the questionable reasoning outright, and some ask questions that boggles some people's minds. Make's sense to me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygroscopy
" All sorts of things can happen when you are open to new Ideas" Inventor of Kevlar
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Re: Oil shelf life question
[Re: L.R Helbling]
#2270609
03/16/17 04:20 PM
03/16/17 04:20 PM
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cudaman1969
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I am still amazed at all the fine folks on here that keep oil around for 25 years and swear by it. I've never considered it. Don't know why people would do things like that to begin with. Eventually, everything has a shelf life and goes bad. Even oil does but when exactly might be up for debate. If I pulled into a garage for an oil change and someone put 25 year old oil into my car, I would be seriously displeased. The API service criteria 25 years ago is nothing like the ones today making the oil back then obsolete for modern engines.......probably rebuilt ones too. My 2 cents. What if you have a 25 year old engine?
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Re: Oil shelf life question
[Re: L.R Helbling]
#2270632
03/16/17 04:49 PM
03/16/17 04:49 PM
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I am still amazed at all the fine folks on here that keep oil around for 25 years and swear by it. I've never considered it. Don't know why people would do things like that to begin with. Eventually, everything has a shelf life and goes bad. Even oil does but when exactly might be up for debate. If I pulled into a garage for an oil change and someone put 25 year old oil into my car, I would be seriously displeased. The API service criteria 25 years ago is nothing like the ones today making the oil back then obsolete for modern engines.......probably rebuilt ones too. My 2 cents. I am the only "folk" who keeps oil for 25 years and so would you if you were in my shoes. I am not suggesting to use 25 yo oil in new cars and trucks today and I don't. I was trying to make the point that if you got 10 year oil on the shelf to not throw it away it can be used in our old cars and trucks. Not in our new cars. But like said above...I bet you would like some of the old stuff I got if you were breakin in your flat tappet cam. And no please don't PM me to ask to buy any because I have very little old oil left at this point. IMO the oil I have used don't go bad at 25 years old. That is all.
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