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Re: Need dependable roller lifters
[Re: 512 VALIANT]
#222138
02/13/09 10:43 AM
02/13/09 10:43 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 136
CHANDLER, AZ
512 VALIANT
member
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member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 136
CHANDLER, AZ
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Quote:
ISKY RED ZONE I AGREE (MY MACHINE SHOP INSTALLED THEM IN MINE) - ALSO MEMBER OU812 OWNS AND OPERATES A MACHINE SHOP http://www.immengines.com AND HE SEEMS REALLY SHARP AND KNOWLEDGEABLE. HE MAY BE A GOOD PERSON TO ASK. 
I KNEW HE WOULD BE A GOOD PERSON TO ASK 
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Re: Need dependable roller lifters
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#222139
02/13/09 11:33 AM
02/13/09 11:33 AM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 364
Kentucky
sc301v
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 364
Kentucky
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Quote:
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I sell these: Pushrod oil, edm oil to the bearings, moved oil hole, shrouded wheel, available with no offset or .180 offsets.
Brian
Probably need to have the bores bushed to get any kind of decent oil pressure.
Where do you guys come up with this stuff???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
These lifters go right in, no problem, no bushing. Infact these lifters are made so you can run quite a bit of lift WITHOUT bushing the block!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ask some board members who have bought from me, like Cudabin and AndyF!!!!
Brian
How much lift will they allow?
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Re: Need dependable roller lifters
[Re: sc301v]
#222140
02/13/09 12:22 PM
02/13/09 12:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,488
SoCal
Brian Hafliger
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,488
SoCal
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With oem blocks, we've run .450 lobes with no problems. If you run more lobe than that, I have the base circle reduced when the cam is ground.
With a reduced base circle, we can get a .500 lobe to work.
Brian
Brian Hafliger
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Re: Need dependable roller lifters
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#222141
02/13/09 12:29 PM
02/13/09 12:29 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 364
Kentucky
sc301v
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enthusiast
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 364
Kentucky
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Quote:
With oem blocks, we've run .450 lobes with no problems. If you run more lobe than that, I have the base circle reduced when the cam is ground.
With a reduced base circle, we can get a .500 lobe to work.
Brian
I run a mega block and the cam lift is 815 int and 800 exhaust.
I havent measured the lobe size though.
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Re: Need dependable roller lifters
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#222142
02/13/09 01:00 PM
02/13/09 01:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,166
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,166
Left Coast
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Quote:
Quote:
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I sell these: Pushrod oil, edm oil to the bearings, moved oil hole, shrouded wheel, available with no offset or .180 offsets.
Brian
Probably need to have the bores bushed to get any kind of decent oil pressure.
Where do you guys come up with this stuff???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
These lifters go right in, no problem, no bushing. Infact these lifters are made so you can run quite a bit of lift WITHOUT bushing the block!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ask some board members who have bought from me, like Cudabin and AndyF!!!!
Brian
To be honest with you I now only use Jesel keyed lifters for anything other than low budget builds but I did say "probably". I said "probably" because when I used to use budget lifters and non bushed blocks I had oil pressure problems with anything but full bodied lifters. The lifters you have pictured look like(For clarity I've never used your lifters) some of the ones I've had issues with.
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Re: Need dependable roller lifters
[Re: BobR]
#222143
02/13/09 01:14 PM
02/13/09 01:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,488
SoCal
Brian Hafliger
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,488
SoCal
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I understand Bob, just wanted to clarify that these lifters are not really "budget" lifters, unless they are compared to Jesels.
The body, has absolutely zero to do with oil issues. The oiling problems stem from where the body ends, at the wheel. Some lifters only come down so far, and don't "shroud" the wheel. This can cause the oil galley to be exposed at full lift.
If you remove both plugs at the ends of the galley, and install a cam and these lifters, take a flashlight and look down the galley, you'll see that the oil band in the lifters never uncovers the galley. But at full lift, if there is not enough shrouding at the roller wheel, then the galley can be exposed, and sometimes quite a bit.
By grinding the base circle down anywhere from .030 to .060 you can "drop" the lifter down in the hole more and that helps with max lift placement of the lifter, allowing the galley to be covered AND using a large lobe (.500).
In aftermarket blocks, like the World and MP you can safely run .500 with no base circle reduction.
I hope this helps guys out there, even if you use a different lifter, what to look for and how to avoid problems with uncovering the oil galleys.
Brian
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Re: Need dependable roller lifters
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#222146
02/13/09 02:08 PM
02/13/09 02:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,261
Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,261
Oregon
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Here is a better picture of the private label roller lifters. I've used a couple sets of these now in un-bushed, production blocks. They work great with no oil pressure issues. These are the only lifters that I know of that oil the roller, oil the pushrod, has an offset intake cup and works in an unbushed block. I've talked to Crower, Crane, Isky, Comp, etc and as far as I can tell, nobody else makes a drop in lifter that has all of these features. If anyone has an actual part number from anyone else that has all of these features I'd love to hear about it. 
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Re: Need dependable roller lifters
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#222147
02/13/09 03:08 PM
02/13/09 03:08 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,166
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,166
Left Coast
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Quote:
I understand Bob, just wanted to clarify that these lifters are not really "budget" lifters, unless they are compared to Jesels.
The body, has absolutely zero to do with oil issues. The oiling problems stem from where the body ends, at the wheel. Some lifters only come down so far, and don't "shroud" the wheel. This can cause the oil galley to be exposed at full lift.
If you remove both plugs at the ends of the galley, and install a cam and these lifters, take a flashlight and look down the galley, you'll see that the oil band in the lifters never uncovers the galley. But at full lift, if there is not enough shrouding at the roller wheel, then the galley can be exposed, and sometimes quite a bit.
By grinding the base circle down anywhere from .030 to .060 you can "drop" the lifter down in the hole more and that helps with max lift placement of the lifter, allowing the galley to be covered AND using a large lobe (.500).
In aftermarket blocks, like the World and MP you can safely run .500 with no base circle reduction.
I hope this helps guys out there, even if you use a different lifter, what to look for and how to avoid problems with uncovering the oil galleys.
Brian
To be honest with you Brian, I really didn't know exactly what "uncovered" with the lifters that I had problems with. What you say makes sense. I did learn something today. I now just get all my blocks bushed. The last 440 block that I didn't have bushed was my brothers 496 stroker. Even though he has the correct lifters I'm not real happy with the oil pressure on that motor. It's sufficient but definitely no margin for error. As far as what are "budget" lifters. I never dreamed I'd see the day that I'd pay 2800 bucks for lifters but now that I have used the Jesels I'll never go back. Of course we spin our motor real close to 10,000 RPM and our pushrods look like RR spikes.
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Re: Need dependable roller lifters
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#222149
02/13/09 03:19 PM
02/13/09 03:19 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 364
Kentucky
sc301v
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 364
Kentucky
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Quote:
I sell these: Pushrod oil, edm oil to the bearings, moved oil hole, shrouded wheel, available with no offset or .180 offsets.
Brian
One last question on these lifters.
I usually make 350 to 400 passes a season.
How durable are we talking.
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Re: Need dependable roller lifters
[Re: jamesc]
#222150
02/13/09 05:40 PM
02/13/09 05:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,261
Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,261
Oregon
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Quote:
i'd love to know just how many shops actually make all these different roller lifters. seems to me with all the machine work, heat treating and so forth involved plus the limited market there can't be near as many manufactures as labels. 
Bingo
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Re: Need dependable roller lifters
[Re: sc301v]
#222151
02/13/09 06:55 PM
02/13/09 06:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,488
SoCal
Brian Hafliger
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,488
SoCal
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Quote:
Quote:
I sell these: Pushrod oil, edm oil to the bearings, moved oil hole, shrouded wheel, available with no offset or .180 offsets.
Brian
One last question on these lifters.
I usually make 350 to 400 passes a season.
How durable are we talking.
They will last as long as you take care of them, like keeping up with spring pressure.
Spring degradation is the #1 roller lifter killer. #2 is wrong lash.
Brian
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