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Borgeson or Firm Feel steering box #2219304 12/22/16 10:11 PM 12/22/16 10:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario D dd340 OP super stock
dd340 OP super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario	I'm looking to upgrade my power steering and trying to pick between them. I see the Borgeson box is more expensive but once I factor in the shipping of the new box and then shipping back the core maybe it's not that much difference. For sake of argument let's base the decision on quality. Any opinions? Last edited by dd340; 12/22/16 10:13 PM.

Re: Borgeson or Firm Feel steering box [Re: dd340] #2219324 12/22/16 10:25 PM 12/22/16 10:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 25,050 Texas GoodysGotaCuda 5.7L Hemi, 6spd
GoodysGotaCuda 5.7L Hemi, 6spd Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 25,050 Texas	The numbers I pulled together favors the Borgeson. Shipping kills the appeal of the Firm Feel rebuild and I'll take the weight savings. Planning on ordering a box here soon from Borgeson, I wish I could find some level of a discount on one. 1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi, T56 Magnum 6spd - https://www.facebook.com/GoodysGotaHemi 2020 RAM 1500 [img]https://i.imgur.com/v9yezP9.jpg[/img]

Re: Borgeson or Firm Feel steering box [Re: dd340] #2219328 12/22/16 10:31 PM 12/22/16 10:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,074 Manitoba Canada 67autocross super stock
67autocross super stock Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,074 Manitoba Canada	If you are going to put a lot of miles on the car the factory box will get sloppy in a few years....just like any factory box. A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel

Re: Borgeson or Firm Feel steering box [Re: GoodysGotaCuda] #2219332 12/22/16 10:34 PM 12/22/16 10:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario D dd340 OP super stock
dd340 OP super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario	Originally Posted By GoodysGotaCuda The numbers I pulled together favors the Borgeson. Shipping kills the appeal of the Firm Feel rebuild and I'll take the weight savings. Planning on ordering a box here soon from Borgeson, I wish I could find some level of a discount on one. I noticed that Summit carries the Borgeson which means free shipping and they sometimes have a 10% discount I think.

Re: Borgeson or Firm Feel steering box [Re: dd340] #2219334 12/22/16 10:37 PM 12/22/16 10:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 25,050 Texas GoodysGotaCuda 5.7L Hemi, 6spd
GoodysGotaCuda 5.7L Hemi, 6spd Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 25,050 Texas	Originally Posted By dd340 Originally Posted By GoodysGotaCuda The numbers I pulled together favors the Borgeson. Shipping kills the appeal of the Firm Feel rebuild and I'll take the weight savings. Planning on ordering a box here soon from Borgeson, I wish I could find some level of a discount on one. I noticed that Summit carries the Borgeson which means free shipping and they sometimes have a 10% discount I think. I think Summit killed the -10% and just does $25 off $250 on occasion. 1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi, T56 Magnum 6spd - https://www.facebook.com/GoodysGotaHemi 2020 RAM 1500 [img]https://i.imgur.com/v9yezP9.jpg[/img]

Re: Borgeson or Firm Feel steering box [Re: GoodysGotaCuda] #2219339 12/22/16 10:44 PM 12/22/16 10:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario D dd340 OP super stock
dd340 OP super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario	What made you decide the Borgeson was the better option?

Re: Borgeson or Firm Feel steering box [Re: dd340] #2219341 12/22/16 10:46 PM 12/22/16 10:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 25,050 Texas GoodysGotaCuda 5.7L Hemi, 6spd
GoodysGotaCuda 5.7L Hemi, 6spd Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 25,050 Texas	Originally Posted By dd340 What made you decide the Borgeson was the better option? Cost is close to the Firm Feel after you ship it across the World twice. Firm Feel is building on a 40 year old box, I feel that the Borgeson will have some inherent design improvements, weight reduction and better ratio. The Borgeson requires that expensive adapter if you are using a stock column, I think I will be mitigating some of that cost and putting it into retrofitting a steering quickener...for even faster steering. 1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi, T56 Magnum 6spd - https://www.facebook.com/GoodysGotaHemi 2020 RAM 1500 [img]https://i.imgur.com/v9yezP9.jpg[/img]

Re: Borgeson or Firm Feel steering box [Re: dd340] #2219419 12/23/16 12:58 AM 12/23/16 12:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,396 chicago,il jaque pro stock
jaque pro stock Joined: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,396 chicago,il	yep old box is still waiting to be sent back, ugh, but man my stage 3 box with my hotckis setup made my car come alive, and it feels a lot safer!! get ahold of sublimehemi on here he knows the differences and certain set ups even tho smaller the burgeon doesn't work.. look him up.. you come here with nothing and leave here with nothing!! enjoy life while on this planet, cuz when youre dead youre dead!!!

Re: Borgeson or Firm Feel steering box [Re: dd340] #2219611 12/23/16 01:06 PM 12/23/16 01:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,054 Omaha Ne T TJP I Live Here
TJP I Live Here T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,054 Omaha Ne	Originally Posted By dd340 I'm looking to upgrade my power steering and trying to pick between them. I see the Borgeson box is more expensive but once I factor in the shipping of the new box and then shipping back the core maybe it's not that much difference. For sake of argument let's base the decision on quality. Any opinions? If you are referring to a Borgeson conversion box / kit I would proceed with extreme caution. Based on their "previous" good reputation of doing things right we have purchased several of their "KITS" for different makes and models of customers cars. They all had installation / fitment problems that I later found out via google were quite well documented. Their tech support acknowledged the problems when confronted but did little other than offer to send out replacement parts that have the same issues. The owner and his son are basically absentee owners who are off pursuing other interests. The issues range from erroneous pitman arm geometry, off center steering, power steering groaning at low speeds, coupler issues between the box and shaft as well as a myriad of other problems. it is disappointing to see a company that was once a stellar supplier go down the tubes due to mis management. www.tandmautomotive-omaha.com

Re: Borgeson or Firm Feel steering box [Re: TJP] #2219679 12/23/16 03:01 PM 12/23/16 03:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario D dd340 OP super stock
dd340 OP super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario	Originally Posted By TJP Originally Posted By dd340 I'm looking to upgrade my power steering and trying to pick between them. I see the Borgeson box is more expensive but once I factor in the shipping of the new box and then shipping back the core maybe it's not that much difference. For sake of argument let's base the decision on quality. Any opinions? If you are referring to a Borgeson conversion box / kit I would proceed with extreme caution. Based on their "previous" good reputation of doing things right we have purchased several of their "KITS" for different makes and models of customers cars. They all had installation / fitment problems that I later found out via google were quite well documented. Their tech support acknowledged the problems when confronted but did little other than offer to send out replacement parts that have the same issues. The owner and his son are basically absentee owners who are off pursuing other interests. The issues range from erroneous pitman arm geometry, off center steering, power steering groaning at low speeds, coupler issues between the box and shaft as well as a myriad of other problems. it is disappointing to see a company that was once a stellar supplier go down the tubes due to mis management. I had read about some of those problems but I got the feeling it was rectified when they switched to a new box that was a bit smaller. I guess not?

Re: Borgeson or Firm Feel steering box [Re: dd340] #2219709 12/23/16 03:51 PM 12/23/16 03:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 95 Peoples Republic of Oregon W wayfarer member
wayfarer member W Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 95 Peoples Republic of Oregon	I don't have any experience with any Borgeson box for a passenger car but, the box I bought for a truck was just plain dangerous as it had a very hard, almost locked-up feeling, at center. They would not honor their warranty and denied that the box was defective even though they never saw it. They will never see my business again. I will just say be cautious and make sure that you have some recourse. www.qualityengineeredcomponents.com Early Hemi Parts and Tech EarlyHemi and flat 6&8 trans adapters *inventory clearance in progress. Nothing held back. See website.*

Re: Borgeson or Firm Feel steering box [Re: dd340] #2219712 12/23/16 03:59 PM 12/23/16 03:59 PM
Joined: May 2007 Posts: 701 Northern California lilcuda super stock
lilcuda super stock Joined: May 2007 Posts: 701 Northern California	I owned Tim Werner's former Valiant (aka The Red Brick) for 2 years. It has a Firm Feel Stage 3 box in it. I liked the feel of it in terms of firmness, but when I took it up in hills near where I live, I experienced a vagueness in the steering on center. I had to try to anticipate the lack of response as it went through the center portion of the travel. It could just be that it needs the sector support bearing that FF sells. I never investigated whether it was the box flexing on the K member or just on-center sloppiness. Whatever it was, it did not inspire confidence in me to go faster, even though the rest of the chassis was up to the task. '67 is an abbreviation of 1967 67' is an abbreviation of 67 feet They are not interchangeable.

Re: Borgeson or Firm Feel steering box [Re: dd340] #2219714 12/23/16 04:03 PM 12/23/16 04:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 3,577 Long Island, NY USA B BergmanAutoCraft master
BergmanAutoCraft master B Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 3,577 Long Island, NY USA	If anyone would like to talk to me about these kits, I'm happy to answer questions. I've been making the direct fit couplers and direct fit hydraulic line adapters since day one. There is a lot of misinformation in the threads above. The borgeson box is light years ahead of a factory box and is actually a box based on another OE design. I should also note I am a supporter of this board. Bergmanautocraft.com

Re: Borgeson or Firm Feel steering box [Re: BergmanAutoCraft] #2219722 12/23/16 04:22 PM 12/23/16 04:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 463 Rescue CA. joes68340s mopar
joes68340s mopar Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 463 Rescue CA.	I have the Borgeson in a Valiant set up for autox. I have no complaints and Like it. I only wish the header fitment was better considering its smaller.

Re: Borgeson or Firm Feel steering box [Re: dd340] #2219724 12/23/16 04:27 PM 12/23/16 04:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	Some information. there are some vendors who will not say a bad word about a product they sell unless they quit selling it. Then the truth may come out. Keep that in mind when weighing user versus seller responses. Now if a vendor was willing to back up their faith in the product by agreeing, in writing and in advance, to a 100% refund all costs to you if the product turns out to be a POS, then yeah give it a shot. And that's ALL costs, not just a refund of your purchase price. Let us know if that unicorn shows up. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: Borgeson or Firm Feel steering box [Re: joes68340s] #2219747 12/23/16 05:28 PM 12/23/16 05:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario D dd340 OP super stock
dd340 OP super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario	Originally Posted By joes68340s I have the Borgeson in a Valiant set up for autox. I have no complaints and Like it. I only wish the header fitment was better considering its smaller. Could you tell me more about the header fit problems? I'm planning on doug's headers in my 69 dart with a 340.

Re: Borgeson or Firm Feel steering box [Re: dd340] #2219814 12/23/16 07:17 PM 12/23/16 07:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 463 Rescue CA. joes68340s mopar
joes68340s mopar Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 463 Rescue CA.	My experience is that TTIs rub so you have to find out about dougs. I would be interested also. I'm running TTI shorty.

Re: Borgeson or Firm Feel steering box [Re: BergmanAutoCraft] #2219837 12/23/16 08:13 PM 12/23/16 08:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,054 Omaha Ne T TJP I Live Here
TJP I Live Here T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,054 Omaha Ne	Originally Posted By BergmanAutoCraft If anyone would like to talk to me about these kits, I'm happy to answer questions. I've been making the direct fit couplers and direct fit hydraulic line adapters since day one. There is a lot of misinformation in the threads above. The borgeson box is light years ahead of a factory box and is actually a box based on another OE design. I should also note I am a supporter of this board. Bergmanautocraft.com Our problems were not with the box but fitment, pumps, pressures and application issues that are well documented. Sorting out their issues is a very costly expense for a shop to eat. Their tech guy admitted that They don't do real world testing or mock up. Their thought process per him is, if it works in a camaro then it should work in A cuda. That is a direct quote. www.tandmautomotive-omaha.com

Re: Borgeson or Firm Feel steering box [Re: dd340] #2219915 12/23/16 10:44 PM 12/23/16 10:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 6,059 Salem Grizzly Moparts Proctologist
Grizzly Moparts Proctologist Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 6,059 Salem	Well, just one look at this hacked-together POS should have been a tip-off it was a Mickey-Mouse, fly-by-night snowjob. Tried pointing this out 4 years ago and no one would listen (it was actually previous to this but that thread is gone): Moparts Thread Not supposed to weld steering components. Period. End of story. It's ILLEGAL where I live and likely the same where you are. Love it when I'm right. Up next, Hellcats are going down in value, ready to re-vive a certain thread when the time comes. Mo' Farts Moderated by "tbagger".

Re: Borgeson or Firm Feel steering box [Re: Grizzly] #2219922 12/23/16 11:00 PM 12/23/16 11:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,054 Omaha Ne T TJP I Live Here
TJP I Live Here T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,054 Omaha Ne	they are running off their previously established reputation, and selling www.tandmautomotive-omaha.com

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