Re: BB Cam bearing bore honing
[Re: madscientist]
#2205968
12/01/16 05:45 PM
12/01/16 05:45 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,745 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,745
Bend,OR USA
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That tool posted in the first post doesn't remove metal so I have no idea how MM is doing what they claim with that tool.
I have a Lisle precision cylinder hone like that hone, Sunnen makes one and I'm sure other good tool company make them and sell them also. I have removed over .0015 taper from more than one block with a torque plate mounted on them Their is a knob on the top of the hone to put pressure on the stones, the more pressure the quicker the cutting. Lisle and Sunnen offer different grit stones also I quit using mine long ago due to the time involved to get the job done compared to paying a good machine shop to do it on a commercial honing machine
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: BB Cam bearing bore honing
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2205978
12/01/16 05:53 PM
12/01/16 05:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
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Posts: 4,457
Washington
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That tool posted in the first post doesn't remove metal so I have no idea how MM is doing what they claim with that tool.
I have a Lisle precision cylinder hone like that hone, Sunnen makes one and I'm sure other good tool company make them and sell them also. I have removed over .0015 taper from more than one block with a torque plate mounted on them Their is a knob on the top of the hone to put pressure on the stones, the more pressure the quicker the cutting. Lisle and Sunnen offer different grit stones also I quit using mine long ago due to the time involved to get the job done compared to paying a good machine shop to do it on a commercial honing machine Guess I should have been more clear. I can't see the pic very well in the first post. I clicked on the link and looked at the hone in that link. The hone they are showing in THAT picture is a monofilament BRUSH hone and will not remove much more than .0002 and you have to lean on it to make it do it. I realize you can get roller cores with different bearings, but again, in the article, looks like they are using a FT cam. Didn't know you can get a core with different bearings for that.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: BB Cam bearing bore honing
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2206727
12/02/16 11:42 PM
12/02/16 11:42 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 231 USA
B5496RR
OP
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OP
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Posts: 231
USA
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I have acquired a RIGID Lisle hone like the one I displayed in my original post.
As Cab Burge noted there is an adjustable nut to apply more force/pressure to the cutting stones.
The stones are 180 grit.
So far I have measured the #1 cam bearing bore in the block and it's .006 too small/under chrysler spec.
Can anyone give me a estimated time it would take to open this bore .006? 5 mins, 1 hour, 1 day of the drill motor turning the hone??
IS the block material softer than the cylinder bore material?
Last edited by B5496RR; 12/02/16 11:43 PM.
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Re: BB Cam bearing bore honing
[Re: B5496RR]
#2206745
12/03/16 12:31 AM
12/03/16 12:31 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,745 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
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If you decide to hone the block make sure and use a spray on lubricant to help flush the metal out and keep the stones clean I use a garden sprayer and a mix of diesel fuel(1 gallon) and 5W 20WT motor oil or 1 quart of ATF as the lube As far as how long on each cam journal it will depend on how much pressure and RPM your using on each journal Make sure and use a good quality 1/2 inch electric drill motor, not a cheapo 3/8 size EDITED Make sure and stroke it front to back equally so you don't wear a groove into the stones, it would be easier if you had a way to control the stroke length and center the shaft to the hone so it doesn't wobble around a lot while honing Take your time on the first one, cut a little at a time and the measure again until you get it within .0005 on the small size and go from there I'm thinking it will not go fast so be patient and take your time, good luck
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/03/16 01:02 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: BB Cam bearing bore honing
[Re: B5496RR]
#2206808
12/03/16 02:38 AM
12/03/16 02:38 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 361 Canada
onig
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How many guys use an old cam and cut slots in the bearing journal and run it through and spin it to remove material in the cam bearing?
69 Dart
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Re: BB Cam bearing bore honing
[Re: onig]
#2206811
12/03/16 02:48 AM
12/03/16 02:48 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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How many guys use an old cam and cut slots in the bearing journal and run it through and spin it to remove material in the cam bearing? ME... I do all my stock type bearings that way.. use oil and I spin it with my impact wrench... the cam only turns 1/2 the engine rpm so mine only turns 4100 cam rpms... I freshen the engine but the cam bearings stay.. they look fine
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Re: BB Cam bearing bore honing
[Re: B5496RR]
#2206837
12/03/16 04:07 AM
12/03/16 04:07 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,745 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
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Posts: 43,745
Bend,OR USA
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IS the block material softer than the cylinder bore material?
The block is cast, cured and machined as one piece, correct? You will need to learn on how much preload to use on your hone by hands on testing the preload to make sure it is removing material and not polishing it If it is not slowing the drill motor down under the load compared to unloaded it is probably polishing it instead of removing material Another thing to check before you continue is the cam to make sure it is NOT bent Been there, done that Cast iron cores and steel billet cams can get bent, both can be straighten also by a good shop Don't we love trouble shooting
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/03/16 04:08 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: BB Cam bearing bore honing
[Re: onig]
#2207074
12/03/16 06:18 PM
12/03/16 06:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,538 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 26,538
Rio Linda, CA
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How many guys use an old cam and cut slots in the bearing journal and run it through and spin it to remove material in the cam bearing? Me.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: BB Cam bearing bore honing
[Re: B5496RR]
#2207103
12/03/16 07:18 PM
12/03/16 07:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,539 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,539
So. Burlington, Vt.
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I have honed bb mopar cam housing bores before using a hone similar to the one pictured.
The biggest challenge in taking out as much as .006 will be preventing taper or bellmouthing the bore.
It won't take very much honing to do it. Exactly how long will depend on how much tension you put on the stones, rpm, and lube used.
Hone a little.... Check size and taper.... Hone some more, etc.
My understanding of how the factory did it was that there was a 5-step reamer used on the bearings themselves that did all 5 at one time, in place. So it didn't matter if the factory cam tunnel bores were all that round or perfectly in line with each other....... Being sized in place, all at the same time made it less critical for that part of the block to be really "right".
I've actually gotten sort of burned by a screwed up cam tunnel on these motors before. You have the block all done, then you go to install the cam bearings only to discover there is some issue with the cam tunnel. Now, after the block comes out of the cleaner, it's the first thing I check.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: BB Cam bearing bore honing
[Re: onig]
#2207104
12/03/16 07:20 PM
12/03/16 07:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890 North Alabama
Monte_Smith
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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How many guys use an old cam and cut slots in the bearing journal and run it through and spin it to remove material in the cam bearing? Lots of shops use "cutter cams" because it's quick, easy and usually works just fine. But to actually "fix" the issue......honing is the right way to do it. As fast says, it will likely cut way faster than you think it will. Go slow, check it often
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Re: BB Cam bearing bore honing
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2207170
12/03/16 09:19 PM
12/03/16 09:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,538 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,538
Rio Linda, CA
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My understanding of how the factory did it was that there was a 5-step reamer used on the bearings themselves that did all 5 at one time, in place.
The only CORRECT way to do it.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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