Post deleted by Ira

Wow. This is amazing. I heard about this on another forum, it was linked here.
I read about it last night, and i bought the supplies today.
Im ready to do a test section on a door TODAY
This is perfect for me.
My only questions is prepping.
I want to do this on a black '79 malibu, the paint is pretty oxidized.
Do i need to sand to bare metal? or can i paint right over the oxidized paint.
I know in your first post, you said prep as normal, fix bondo and all, but i havnt found much about my situation.
I amreading everything you have posted, and compiling a step by step process.
This is great.

This is great man, I read it last night, and im trying it today!
So all i can do today, is prep the car, and paint one layer, correct?
Tommorow i will wet sand, and then paint once more, correct?
Should i paint right over the paint? or should i sand down to metal. I just went and looked at the test door.
Its on an old boom truck, and there is still a company sign on it. I will remove the sign, and that will leave little sticky behind, so i guess i will have to sand that down. What grit do i get?
I would like to sand the entire test area.
THANKS!!!

http://www.rustoleum.com/Product.asp?frm_product_id=18&SBL=1

The "Fresh Blue" on this page almost looks like Petty Blue. Hmmmmmmmm....

Awesome.
Im gonna go get to work.
This is the step by step process i made, using 69chargers words only I added one sentence in ()'s
I just copied, and pasted.
here it is. If i left out anything. LET ME KNOW!
So, im gonna go rip off that sign, and get some 150grit, and sand till its smooth, and thenpaint.
this is exciting

Body prep

next prep your car as if was any other paint job, fix all the rust, ect....
no need to prime the car since the tremclad allready contains elements which allow
it to be painted over bare metal.




mixing paint

next u thin the paint with mineral spirits so it just about as thin as water, a little thicker.
theres no ratio that i could come up with because once you open the can and pour some out the next day the paint will be a bit thicker.
if i had to guess i would say about 20% thinner or so? just thin enough that it does'nt run,
but not too thick. keep in mind that you can allways add more paint to the mix if you go too thin.
and the coats go on really really thin, that is the key, like i said before you don't really have a true non transparent base until the 3rd or 4th coat.




Painting
I also load the roller up quite heavily, then work it until the roller does'nt have so much paint in it
and do the detail work after. once you spread the paint wait a minute or so and then just really gently
run the roller using only the weight of the roller, on the sides just use very very light pressure as if
it were the weight of it. How you thin the paint is critical, i have not had one paint run on any of the cars
i've painted. To give you an idea, you really only start to have full coverage to where u can't see any body work
or underlying color thru the paint until the 3rd coat
after u do 2 coats, wet sand the whole car, then repeat, 2 coats, wetsand, 2 coats wetsand
The trick is in how you thin the paint, get it as thin as possible without running,
and the paint "self levels" it comes out like glass,
wet sanding just makes it better,'
when the paint is thinned your barley putting on any paint with each coat, so you really need to do about
6 coats to get enough of a base so you can wet sand and polish
You only cover up the bodywork, underlying color until after the 4th coat, keep in mind that there is wet sanding in between each 2 coats.
if you get bubbles when your painting your pushing down on the roller too hard, lighten it up a bit,
let the paint sit for 1 minute after you've spread it out nice, then just run the roller over the area VERY gently using only the weight of the roller,
then turn around, have a smoke after you've done the pannel, and when your done your smoke, turn around and you'll see it has "self leveled"
before your eyes


Painting Hard to get areas

do the hood, doors, front fenders, and the trunk, that's easy.
then i do the whole roof and sail pannels in one shot working fast, there's enough time to do it before the paint tacks up if u rush it,
not the time to have a coffee or smoke. i stopped at the rear quarter just below the sail pannels and top quarter pannel where there is a edge to stop at.
then continue from there on each side meeting in the back rear valance. the trick there is to not leave and raised paint lines,
and smooth it out gradually as u approach the point where u stop, then run to the other side and do the other half of the roof and overlap the strokes.
wetsanding does the rest, but u try to make it as smooth as possible, the paint is very thin on each coat. it's really hard to describe,
that's where all the expirementing comes in to play.



Sanding

do one panel at a time, and don't stop once you start. once your done the final coat,
wetsand with about 1000 grit to a totally smooth finish, and then using a high speed polisher
i use a buffing bonnet and turtle wax polishing compound. do the whole car with this, and i'm telling u,
depending on the amount of time and paitence you have, the results are amazing
use a spray bottle and keep the paper really wet, finish with a 1000 grit or so and then buff with a random
orbit polisher using turtle wax POLISHING compound, NOT the rubbing compound, its' to harsh.
it is critical to use the proper roller, it's about 4" wide and about 1 1/2" thick,
and really high density white foam. it really works and is much tougher paint than todays single stage or base clear,
very hard to scratch
did not block sand the car just wetsand progressivly finer paper by HAND, no machine, no block nothing.
using any "block" to sand i found the paper got dirty fast and got all plugged up,
so do it by hand and keep it really wet, using a spray bottle in one hand and a clean bucket of water and a shammy
(dollar store!!!)to clean it off to see how it looks. i prepped the car with 80, then 100, then 200,
finished with a 400, did all my body work, and painted. after 2 coats (about 4hrs work for the whole car)
i wetsanded with a 600, then did 2 more coats, wetsand with 800, 2 more coats and sand with a 1000-1500 and polish,
followed by wax, done......
one more pointer, when u wet sand the final coat, the paint looks flat, like velvet,
if you take a rag soaked with mineral spirits and whipe a spot down that you just sanded,
that's what it will look like buffed. if you buff and decide to paint again clean the area with
mineral spirts so that and residue from the polishing compound is removed or the paint won't stick.
do another coat, try to put it on really light, i hope u prepped the fender a little before you started painting.
when u wet sand try using a 600-800 grit, and lightly wet sand the fender with light pressure and ALOT of water.
Spraying it on should maybe work better but its messy, stinky, and a pain. when u first start to wet sand you'll notice
the paper just kinda glides over the paint and it does'nt really feel like your sanding anything, keep going, soon the water will stop
beeding off the paint and it will start to turn yellow. after wetsanding it looks like crap, this is where the polishing come in, brings it to glass.
i haven't tried soap and water, i see no real advantage, i just use straight water and keep the area really wet, using a spray bottle and spray it down alot,
after wetsanding for a bit i have a bucket of water and a shammy i whipe down the surface with while it's still wet, that way it's much eaiser
to clean before it dries. and as for the mineral spirits on a wet rag and just whiping it down, yes, that's what it looks like polished, even better,
just gives you an idea of what it will look like when finished, that's about the first time you really see the results.




buffing
polishing compound, not rubbing compound
the rubbing compound could be used if you really want to, i just found it much better to wetsand with 1000 grit and then go straight to polishing,
that's what worked for me. the rubbing compound seemed to ball up under the polisher and make a mess and make some scratches when it balled up,
i used the polishing compound on a regular bonnet on a 10" elecrtic random orbit polisher, it's only after polishing that it looks like glass,
and i kept it wet with water from a spray bottle on the bonnet, forgot to mention that, but keeping it quite wet worked great.

like i mentioned before after wetsanding use a random orbit polisher and the cheapest
POLISHING COMPOUND made by turtle wax, it comes in a paste in a small round flat container and it's white,
allmost looks like hand cream and smells good too!!!



Random tips

as a hint if you try it first you paint the surface, and then really lightly "skim" the surface with the weight of the roller
only to remove any lines bubbles ect, then just leave it for a minute or two and you'll see it just "self levels"
totally flat to glass. then wetsand it really fine
Oh and i strip the car of all chrome, bumpers, rubber, door handles, trim, ect...nothing looks cheaper than a car that's just taped!!!
have a shelf full of polishing compounds, mothers, mequires, ect....know what works the best?
the cheapest one!!! turtle wax polishing compound in the white paste, $3,
polish ANY enamel with a electric random orbit polisher and you'll be impressed......... and just a tip if you try it keep the buffing bonnet WET,
have a spray bottle full of water and spray it on the bonnet each time u load up the polish paste, be very generous with both.
there's still bubbles in the paint when u mixed it really well then get some paper towel and "skim" the surface to get rid of the bubbles.
if you get bubbles when your painting your pushing down on the roller too hard, lighten it up a bit, let the paint sit for 1 minute,
after you've spread it out nice, then just run the roller over the area VERY gently using only the weight of the roller,
then turn around, have a smoke after you've done the pannel, and when your done your smoke, turn around and you'll see it has "self leveled"
before your eyes. if your doing a vertical section just apply a tiny amount of pressure as if it were the weight alone of the roller.
it's really tricky to do, i could lay it down perfectly level but i have done it alot, you have to "read" the paint, listen carefully,
it will tell you what to to . hope this helps.
DON'T use water!!! (to clean the roller, or paper towels)

Quit talkin' and get paintin'!
Holy C*** page 6 already?

One thing about wetsanding- when I tried it with a hard rubber block, I found it loaded up too much. I tried it by hand which worked ok. What I finally ended up using was one of those foam sanding blocks (the same 150 grit one I used to sand the surface before I started) with the paper wrapped around it. I used 600, then 800, then 1500 (2 coats between each).

You will probably have to experiment with the correct mixture of mineral spirits. I started off trying to measure, but it was a pain to try to measure very small amounts (like under 2 oz total) since I was doing a small area. In the end, I just had a yogurt container where I mixed the paint and spirits, and got it a lot thinner than it comes out of the can, but not watery. Then I'd pour it into the paint tray, and what was left I'd put back in the yogurt container (w/lid of course) where I'd mix the next batch in with the old batch. Very little waste with that process..

So heres some background.
Im 20 years old, and currently on leave from baghdad till saturday! so i dont have much time at all.
I have absolutely 0 experience in paint and body.
I was out there sanding, and my dad laughed at me, he got me a body grinder, and all i have was 40! grit, soi used that on it. I found a HUGE bondo spot in the door, which made my test area shink alot! All i gotta do is mix the paint, and go at it. I will update in a few minutes when im done. I am takin pictures as i go.
this is so exciting.

Post deleted by Ira

69charger, Scroll up a little and look what i made, do you think i could go by that, as a step by step process, Thats only your words. Im about to paint in the next ten minutes. a very lite coat, and another tommorow monring.

Ok some more questions. I went to Lowes today and looked at their rustoleum. It says to thin with acetone and that mineral spirits is not even an ingredient in their paints. However I went to Tractor Supply Co. TSC and looked at their valspar rust preventative enamel and it says that mineral spirits is the main ingredient of their paint. However, Valspar can says not to thin at all? Can I use the valspar paint and thin it with mineral spirits? It is enamel after all? I am starting to think that tremclad is not the exact same composition as rustoleum.

To be honest...... with all the money spent on these older Mopars, especially in a Concours Correct type of judging, paint pen marks in proper locations, certain amount of overspray, etc--do they not take off points for Base/Clear paintjobs? I was just wondering. I remember Mom's 71 Duster when it was new--and like Charger is basically saying, the colors were Warm looking, not Wet looking like the Modern B/C jobs. They had a shine sure, but not to the degree we've been basically spoiled by. I think they were shot with Acrylic Enamel from the factory, in the very late 60's to early 70's and beyond. Correct me if I'm wrong. Seems Dupont Imron was really coming on strong around the late 70's to early 80's, if memory serves me correctly.(and killed alot of "old school" painters)

In the 50's, I think Lacquer and Enamel were kings of their day, with Lacquer being the paint used more for show/custom jobs because of the mass amounts of sanding/buffing that paint requires-but upon doing so, had more sheen than Enamel could offer. (Too young to remember a "factory 50's car and it's fresh coat of factory Enamel paint...some here probably do )

A good friend of mine is older than I, and I'm 43-him about 65...and his dad was the local body guru locally for the Oldsmobile Dealership, where he worked everyday after school and summers doing the tedious/boring stuff-so 50's early 60's era. Too bad he has lost his "leading" skill over the years. He's mentioned several times how his dad would place a can of open paint, on a "warm" hotplate first thing in the morning to stir and warm it up, for the days shoot and spending alot of time getting panels right and doing lead work. More 'fixing' was done-vs-today's replacing. It is interesting to listen to him speak of the "old days" of doing auto painting and body work and how when Plastic came out, everyone thought it was the cat's meow as far as speed wise, but was more for those "quicky" deals as the bondo back then was worst than today's modern plastics. Lead was the standard for first rate jobs.....and really still is. It's the gauge that modern plastics use.

Can you look at the list of ingredients on your tremclad can and post them in order. This tells which ingredients have higher concentrations. Anyhow if it has mineral spirits as a key ingredient I do not see how it would not work when thinning. I may try to buy a small can and try it. Also thinking about using the hardner thats available with the valspar and only using half of what the normal ratio of hardner is.

Post deleted by Ira