Re: Drum Brake Troubleshooting
[Re: BcudaChris]
#2153572
09/13/16 10:55 AM
09/13/16 10:55 AM
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Posts: 403 Colorado front range
BcudaChris
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Update:
After the 1st MC being a dud, my buddy had his store deliver one that hadn't been opened and I swapped it out, setting the pushrod clearance and bench bleeding on the car. He also sent a loaner brake pressure gauge kit.
What I noticed, 1, the 1 1/32" cylinder is noticeably smaller in diameter and 2, the 1 1/8" cylinder holds roughly 1/2 again as much fluid and has a longer stroke. When I was complaining about the pedal only going half way down, it was the cylinder. It now goes to the same point it always has.
After bleeding the system yet again, way better initial bite and much more speed scrubbed off before the pedal bottomed out. I used the brake pressure gauge at all four corners and at each corner, the pressure spiked, then bled off as the pedal went to the stop.
On a hunch, I grabbed the flex line on the RF while wife helper pushed the pedal, the line swelled up in the middle like a snake that ate a rat. The LF and rear flex lines swelled as well, though not as dramatically. I have encountered this on other cars, but never on flex lines that "looked ok" on a cleaning and static visual inspection.
I think I found the problem. I've ordered up some flex lines, and I can't imagine they will not fix the problem.
I've had this car (3rd owner) since 1988, and it has done a lot of sitting (he fluid that I initially flushed was cloudy brown and full of little black chunks). That said, I've put about 80K on it over the years as it was my daily driver until 96. To my knowledge, only the shoes/pads have been changed until this summer when it got 2 wheel cylinders and one caliper, as well as an MC (the one I think is original puked out the rear and ruined the paint on the lower part of the booster) and the prop valve, which has given me fits since the Clinton administration. All of this started because I had to pump the pedal when braking and had no rear brakes.
I shall report back after the install and One More Bleed. I need to buy stock in Prestone.
Last edited by BcudaChris; 09/13/16 10:59 AM.
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Re: Drum Brake Troubleshooting
[Re: BcudaChris]
#2153644
09/13/16 12:36 PM
09/13/16 12:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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(3) brake hoses were doing that, that is unbelieveable & could of been catastrophic. that sure explains where the psi was going!
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Drum Brake Troubleshooting
[Re: BcudaChris]
#2153925
09/13/16 07:51 PM
09/13/16 07:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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On a hunch, I grabbed the flex line on the RF while wife helper pushed the pedal, the line swelled up in the middle like a snake that ate a rat. I shall report back after the install and One More Bleed. I need to buy stock in Prestone. I think the wife has earned (herself) a paid vacation (the grand canyon would be close)
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Drum Brake Troubleshooting
[Re: BcudaChris]
#2160372
09/23/16 08:08 PM
09/23/16 08:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Unbelieveable, Mr Murphy just ain't gonna let you go on this deal. I think I'd rather be up in that balloon than with those brakes (& I'm scared of heights!). In spite of the RF leak, if it is pulling to the right there there is a problem with the left side (it ain't doing its job).
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Drum Brake Troubleshooting
[Re: BcudaChris]
#2162080
09/26/16 03:21 PM
09/26/16 03:21 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 403 Colorado front range
BcudaChris
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Booster installed! It is still quite tight (high effort), but loosening up nicely. No pull or drama of any sort. I still have not dialed in the adjustable proportioning on the rear circuit though.
The LF caliper was the one leaking and causing the pull, so good there!
Thanks guys for all your assistance here, despite the final outcome of the project, it was most valuable and I've learned a lot.
One questions, so I still have the 1 1/8" MC on there. I still have (can't return) the 1 1/32" MC. It has a smaller casting, and from bleeding, I recall it has a shorter stroke from bleeding 87 or so times. Clearly a smaller volume of fluid displacement as well.
Any idea what going to the 1 1/32" would do for the pedal? Ideally, I would like a shorter stroke and lighter pedal effort (though without my new booster broken in, I don't know what it will be with my current setup). I think it would increase pressure, reducing the effort, and maybe have the shorter stroke.
Thanks again Chris
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Re: Drum Brake Troubleshooting
[Re: BcudaChris]
#2162150
09/26/16 05:22 PM
09/26/16 05:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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I ain't did much MC swapping but general theory says going back to the 1&1/32" from the 1&1/8" would give (1) an easier pedal & (2) a longer stroke. I'm sure you're looking forward to swapping it & doing some more bleeding! Make sure the booster round nub clearance is correct
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Drum Brake Troubleshooting
[Re: p d'ro]
#2162353
09/26/16 09:39 PM
09/26/16 09:39 PM
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Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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I have 70 bronco with all wheel drums and now have a pull to the left. check lining adjustment on the pass sides & if all good then open em up for a visual. EDIT probably wouldn't hurt to check/equalize the adjustments on all 4 corners
Last edited by RapidRobert; 09/26/16 09:45 PM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Drum Brake Troubleshooting
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2162684
09/27/16 11:39 AM
09/27/16 11:39 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,584 MD
p d'ro
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I have 70 bronco with all wheel drums and now have a pull to the left. check lining adjustment on the pass sides & if all good then open em up for a visual. EDIT probably wouldn't hurt to check/equalize the adjustments on all 4 corners Thanks Robert. It has self adjuster star wheels. So get under there and turn until they hang up a little? I will start my own thread once I get going as I don't have the tool or knowledge yet to pull hubs.
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Re: Drum Brake Troubleshooting
[Re: p d'ro]
#2162761
09/27/16 01:12 PM
09/27/16 01:12 PM
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Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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get it up on stands on all 4 corners and spin the front wheels forward by hand & spoon it till at one point in the tires' revolution you can hear a slight "tick". On the rears idle it in gear in drive (wheels spinning) & have a helper hit the brakes to stop the wheels & you go a bit tighter then he lets go & repeat till you hear that same "tick". do both sides and safety first of course. if the shoes etc have been replaced/R&R'd & anything in there undone its a good idea to spoon em up till locked solid then go backwards which takes any possible slack out of the parts & that is alot of extra work working with the adjuster which is always a pain but I think you will be OK as is (without that step)
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Drum Brake Troubleshooting
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2162793
09/27/16 02:04 PM
09/27/16 02:04 PM
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Posts: 1,584 MD
p d'ro
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get it up on stands on all 4 corners and spin the front wheels forward by hand & spoon it till at one point in the tires' revolution you can hear a slight "tick". On the rears idle it in gear in drive (wheels spinning) & have a helper hit the brakes to stop the wheels & you go a bit tighter then he lets go & repeat till you hear that same "tick". do both sides and safety first of course. if the shoes etc have been replaced/R&R'd & anything in there undone its a good idea to spoon em up till locked solid then go backwards which takes any possible slack out of the parts & that is alot of extra work working with the adjuster which is always a pain but I think you will be OK as is (without that step) Thanks. It's a 3 speed so I will do the rears like the fronts since going backwards repeatedly is not cutting it. To the op, is your car locking them up now?
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Re: Drum Brake Troubleshooting
[Re: BcudaChris]
#2162907
09/27/16 04:37 PM
09/27/16 04:37 PM
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Posts: 1,584 MD
p d'ro
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Re: Drum Brake Troubleshooting
[Re: p d'ro]
#2162922
09/27/16 04:54 PM
09/27/16 04:54 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 403 Colorado front range
BcudaChris
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P d'ro, I haven't had opportunity to test/dial in the prop valve yet, so unknown. That said, I can't imagine they won't. I just haven't been able to get to someplace appropriate to do the deed as of yet.
Last edited by BcudaChris; 09/27/16 05:13 PM.
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Re: Drum Brake Troubleshooting
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2162954
09/27/16 05:18 PM
09/27/16 05:18 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
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BcudaChris
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I ain't did much MC swapping but general theory says going back to the 1&1/32" from the 1&1/8" would give (1) an easier pedal & (2) a longer stroke. I'm sure you're looking forward to swapping it & doing some more bleeding! Make sure the booster round nub clearance is correct Yeah, I might leave that for when I'm bored or something, or try it next time I have to open the system. I'm going to do the C-barge rotor upgrade when my rotors give it up. They're both scored pretty good, but width and runout are in spec. I imagine I'll crack one in the next year or so, now that its all road worthy. I have tried to hasten the situation by swapping out the organic pads for semi-metalics.
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Re: Drum Brake Troubleshooting
[Re: p d'ro]
#2167938
10/04/16 07:01 PM
10/04/16 07:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,066 Eugene, Oregon
minivan
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I have 70 bronco with all wheel drums and now have a pull to the left. check lining adjustment on the pass sides & if all good then open em up for a visual. EDIT probably wouldn't hurt to check/equalize the adjustments on all 4 corners Thanks Robert. It has self adjuster star wheels. So get under there and turn until they hang up a little? I will start my own thread once I get going as I don't have the tool or knowledge yet to pull hubs. Better way to adjust your brakes is to tighten up your star adjusters all the way tight and then back off.. Seems to set the brakes into the drum better.. If you count the clicks, as you back off, you can do the same with the other side....
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Re: Drum Brake Troubleshooting
[Re: minivan]
#2168103
10/04/16 11:54 PM
10/04/16 11:54 PM
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Posts: 5,651 Port Huron, Michigan
MI_Custumz
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Better way to adjust your brakes is to tighten up your star adjusters all the way tight and then back off.. Seems to set the brakes into the drum better.. If you count the clicks, as you back off, you can do the same with the other side.... Will this raise the brake pedal at all?
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