Re: My first "What will it run"
[Re: MrSixpack]
#2155568
09/16/16 09:11 AM
09/16/16 09:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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My Holley is making me nuts, it wont run without pushing on the accelerator pump all the time. It seem to have a problem with fuel distribution in the airhorns. So I will use my good working Carter AVS original 1968 440 carb, it works great and I'll tune it on the track, I have my big box of jets with me.
I will put together a really good race combination this winter, I have some stage6 heads that was on my dyno mule from Mopar Performance.
Talk to you later after the TT/bracket race :-)
Thanks go on ebay, buy a used 750DP or HP, and a rebuild kit. You'll never mess with a vacuum or carter again. With your set-up I'd start with 31 squirters, 78/82 jets and 6.0PV. Your Holley doesn't like that cam. If you really want it to run ditch the cam. The Summit 465/488 would work well with what you have. Or if you want to spend a few call a custom cam guy and get one ground.
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Re: My first "What will it run"
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#2155596
09/16/16 10:14 AM
09/16/16 10:14 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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don't forget we are talking about a 4000 lb car here. The 484 cam is probably my least favorite. It needs all the stall and gear of a 509, yet lacks the performance. I yanked one out of a 67 coronet w/ a 2800 stall and 3.55's because it was so lame. Sounded great but the $90 Summit 488 cam ran circles around it. You got to be kidding ?? The .509 needs more gear and converter then the .484 all the time. Heck I ran 12.30's @ 110 in a basically stock 383 with bolt on's in my old Dart and the .484 cam which was the older cam. I had it advanced on a 104 installed centerline and I feel that car ran real good for what it was. I know Eric on here ran in the 10's with his Duster and the .484 cam. It will work good in the right combo as my Dart had a tight 10" 3000 stall TA converter and 3.91 gears. Ron
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Re: My first "What will it run"
[Re: 383man]
#2155610
09/16/16 10:20 AM
09/16/16 10:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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don't forget we are talking about a 4000 lb car here. The 484 cam is probably my least favorite. It needs all the stall and gear of a 509, yet lacks the performance. I yanked one out of a 67 coronet w/ a 2800 stall and 3.55's because it was so lame. Sounded great but the $90 Summit 488 cam ran circles around it. You got to be kidding ?? The .509 needs more gear and converter then the .484 all the time. Heck I ran 12.30's @ 110 in a basically stock 383 with bolt on's in my old Dart and the .484 cam which was the older cam. I had it advanced on a 104 installed centerline and I feel that car ran real good for what it was. I know Eric on here ran in the 10's with his Duster and the .484 cam. It will work good in the right combo as my Dart had a tight 10" 3000 stall TA converter and 3.91 gears. Ron 484 needs a 3200 stall (at least) and 3.91's (at least) to run well. The 509 is about the same. I've run both more than once. My point is if you are thinking about the 484 you should just get the 509. And a Dart (a-body) is always going to be a 1/2 second faster than a B-body if all things are equal, not to mention you can get away w/ less convert in an A-body.
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Re: My first "What will it run"
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#2155617
09/16/16 10:27 AM
09/16/16 10:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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don't forget we are talking about a 4000 lb car here. The 484 cam is probably my least favorite. It needs all the stall and gear of a 509, yet lacks the performance. I yanked one out of a 67 coronet w/ a 2800 stall and 3.55's because it was so lame. Sounded great but the $90 Summit 488 cam ran circles around it. You got to be kidding ?? The .509 needs more gear and converter then the .484 all the time. Heck I ran 12.30's @ 110 in a basically stock 383 with bolt on's in my old Dart and the .484 cam which was the older cam. I had it advanced on a 104 installed centerline and I feel that car ran real good for what it was. I know Eric on here ran in the 10's with his Duster and the .484 cam. It will work good in the right combo as my Dart had a tight 10" 3000 stall TA converter and 3.91 gears. Ron 484 needs a 3200 stall (at least) and 3.91's (at least) to run well. The 509 is about the same. I've run both more than once. My point is if you are thinking about the 484 you should just get the 509. And a Dart (a-body) is always going to be a 1/2 second faster than a B-body if all things are equal, not to mention you can get away w/ less convert in an A-body. As I stated in the right combo it works good. The .509 has way more duration then the .484 and will always work better with more converter and gear then the .484 needs. I mean no offense but you always call the .484 junk yet my .484 cammed 383 Dart ran much better then your old .509 cammed 440 in your old Coronet. And they were not much different in the combo's. You always call the .484 junk when its not if setup right. Ron
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Re: My first "What will it run"
[Re: 383man]
#2155679
09/16/16 12:11 PM
09/16/16 12:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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As I stated in the right combo it works good. The .509 has way more duration then the .484 and will always work better with more converter and gear then the .484 needs. I mean no offense but you always call the .484 junk yet my .484 cammed 383 Dart ran much better then your old .509 cammed 440 in your old Coronet. And they were not much different in the combo's. You always call the .484 junk when its not if setup right. Ron[/quote]
I know they both work with the right build, My coronet had a maybe 9:1 440, summit 488 cam, Mopar 175k convert, stock 906 heads and 3.55's (then 3.91's). I pulled the 484 cam because it was not right for the combo. (previous owner install). I did have a 69 Charger w/ a 73 440, 509 cam, thermoquad, stock stall and 3.23's. Car didn't seem as slow as the 67 w/ the 484.
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Re: My first "What will it run"
[Re: MrSixpack]
#2155691
09/16/16 12:31 PM
09/16/16 12:31 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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I agree with 383 man, I used a 10" verter and that 484 was 12.80's all day.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: My first "What will it run"
[Re: MrSixpack]
#2155699
09/16/16 12:38 PM
09/16/16 12:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545
So. Burlington, Vt.
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I think you may have some issues getting the low speed manners sorted out using the factory AVS carb, but it shouldn't be a problem getting the wot jetting correct. If it's a "440" AVS I wouldn't be surprised at all if it out ran the Holley 750vs.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: My first "What will it run"
[Re: MrSixpack]
#2155948
09/16/16 07:56 PM
09/16/16 07:56 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,463 oklahoma
forphorty
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,463
oklahoma
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My cheapo 440 in my 68 Satellite was .030 over 2266 TRWs (8.5ish comp) 906s, Comp 292 .501, Torker, 750 vs, 1/78 headers 2.5 exhaust, 11 inch 2500 converter, 3.23 gears. 235/60-14 (about 26 diameter I think) street tires. Had a lift off 6 pak hood. went 13.24 at 103. Opened headers brought mph up to 106. 28x9-15 ET Drags were no improvement due to my poor low end. Stuck in a 10 inch GER( yeah,I know)converter. 12.90s. Weld wheels in front, removed heater/Ac box under dash, made up some homemade SS springs. 12.60s. Traded my 750 vs for a 750 dp, added one inch spacer and with some nice cool air. 12.35 at 107. I'm guessing your Charger weighs a good couple hundred pounds more than my Satellite. I think the thing that will hold you back the most is your converter. My guess: 12.95 at 110.
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Re: My first "What will it run"
[Re: MrSixpack]
#2156726
09/18/16 10:38 AM
09/18/16 10:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,245 Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,245
Plymouth, MI
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The 3.23 gear isn't great but it has decent heads and compression. I would think 13.30's-ish at 106-107. 12's is a stretch goal with a little more gear or a slightly looser converter.
'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
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Re: My first "What will it run"
[Re: Blusmbl]
#2156731
09/18/16 10:45 AM
09/18/16 10:45 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Thats a mid 13s package.... most everything is wrong.. it wont have any low end to it.. wrong conv, wrong gear, wrong carb, wrong headers and the car is heavy... it needs a low end to get it rolling... but its a street car
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Re: My first "What will it run"
[Re: MrSixpack]
#2156828
09/18/16 01:29 PM
09/18/16 01:29 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 952 Stockholm, Sweden
MrSixpack
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 952
Stockholm, Sweden
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Okey I´m back from the track. We had some stock and super stock cars at the track so they had the scales out, and the Charger weight with half tank of fuel and me in it is 3986 lbs. The first run for me and the car was a little disappointing, the carb bogged bad, so the next run I tighten up the secondary and it was a lot better. I forgot the jets for the carb at home so I just ran it as is.
And the results are : 13.25 @ 103.2 mph 1.87 60ft
I´m really happy with that, and I know I can get it down in high 12 with just tuning/replacing the carb and working on the timing curb.
But I think I will upgrade my whole combo this winter to run in the 11 s.
This test was just to see if I would start racing again, a few years ago I got burnt out and in a bad depression, so this was really a test for ME to see if I still like racing. And I do :-)
Thanks Guy´s for all of your input and advises :-)
1970 Super Stock Challenger ex. Paul Rossi 1968 Dodge Dart GT 340 1968 Dodge Charger /6 3 speed manual 1966 Chrysler 300 Loaded 1968 Dodge Charger R/T 440
1968 Mini Cooper
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Re: My first "What will it run"
[Re: MrSixpack]
#2156845
09/18/16 02:07 PM
09/18/16 02:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Nice job!! Shouldn't be too hard to run 11's with the right changes.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: My first "What will it run"
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2156864
09/18/16 03:10 PM
09/18/16 03:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,400 Planet Earth
RoadRunnerLuva
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,400
Planet Earth
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Very cool! 13.25@103 is decent for that combo. I used to own a '69 C body convert with original 440...stock re-build (10.1 comp.) 906 stock heads with just a 3 angle valve job, Edelbrock CH4B intake, stock ootb Holley 750 vacuum sec. carb, Mopar .509 cam installed straight up, Hooker 1-7/8 headers, 2.5 inch FULL exhaust with h pipe, stock re-built 727 trans with a TA mild shift kit and TA 3500 stall convertor, a stock 8-3/4 w/3,91's and B-body SS springs. On L60-15 Pro-Trac tires the best I got out of that combo was 14.10@101 mph in the middle of July...in a 4,350 lb. car!
Plymouth Makes It!
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Re: My first "What will it run"
[Re: MrSixpack]
#2157180
09/19/16 12:24 AM
09/19/16 12:24 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,150 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,150
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Okey I´m back from the track. We had some stock and super stock cars at the track so they had the scales out, and the Charger weight with half tank of fuel and me in it is 3986 lbs. The first run for me and the car was a little disappointing, the carb bogged bad, so the next run I tighten up the secondary and it was a lot better. I forgot the jets for the carb at home so I just ran it as is.
And the results are : 13.25 @ 103.2 mph 1.87 60ft
I´m really happy with that, and I know I can get it down in high 12 with just tuning/replacing the carb and working on the timing curb.
But I think I will upgrade my whole combo this winter to run in the 11 s.
This test was just to see if I would start racing again, a few years ago I got burnt out and in a bad depression, so this was really a test for ME to see if I still like racing. And I do :-)
Thanks Guy´s for all of your input and advises :-) Your comments remind me of the first motor combo in my new Dart chassis back in 1997. Hydraulic cam, 475 cubes, 440-c heads bowl ported, 3180 lbs ran 10.37 first pass, and lean at that. I am sorry I ever messed with that combo, it was as reliable as you could ask for. Build something like it, and you can change oil and plugs once a year as your maintenance schedule and really enjoy the races! You will have a lot of fun just tuning for all it has and deadly consistency
8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: My first "What will it run"
[Re: gregsdart]
#2157224
09/19/16 03:31 AM
09/19/16 03:31 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 952 Stockholm, Sweden
MrSixpack
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 952
Stockholm, Sweden
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Greg, I have my first 440 sixpack engine I built for my Super Stock Challenger. It was a mild and safe combination that I didn't have to check and change valve springs on every other run. 446 with 906 heads that flowed 306 cfm with 2.08-1.74 valves, and old Weiand high rise sixpack intake modified as in the mopar bible. Isky of the shelf "super gas" roller and 1.6 Harland Sharp rockers.
625hp and 510 tq
10.21@130 and 1.40 60 ft in a Challenger weighing 3540 lbs
That engine is on my shop floor and ready to run :-)
I cant sell my first born SS engine :-)
I just love the easy going attitude in our bracket community here in Sweden, and my and my friend always drive our cars to the tracks. This weekend was a 187 miles drive , just put the slicks in the trunk and go :-)
1970 Super Stock Challenger ex. Paul Rossi 1968 Dodge Dart GT 340 1968 Dodge Charger /6 3 speed manual 1966 Chrysler 300 Loaded 1968 Dodge Charger R/T 440
1968 Mini Cooper
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Re: My first "What will it run"
[Re: MrSixpack]
#2157332
09/19/16 11:45 AM
09/19/16 11:45 AM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570 UK
rb446
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570
UK
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That Rossi car was cool, Sylvia could drive!....remember watching it run many a time at SP, I believe they got it down in the 9's.....was normally always a 10.1>10.0 car.
1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990 1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
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