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727 Upgrades for a Stroker power #2147933
09/05/16 01:01 PM
09/05/16 01:01 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,418
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Online content OP
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
I need a list of upgrades that are needed for running +700ft/lbs of torque thru a 727 reliably. Mine is probaly pretty closer to 750ft/lbs....I know a few of the upgrades, and the trans has some good parts in it, but looks like I need a few more. Looks like high gear smoked the clutches trying to hold up against my 605 Hemi.

I am extremely happy with the convertor so far, so that is not an issue.

1-A&A Sprag
2-5-6 Clutch front drum
3-Front pump modded for more flow in high gear
4-4.2 lever
5-Deep pan
6-Very good trans cooler
7-Good clutches, but which are the best street/strip
8-
9-

And then we will have a valve body discussion.


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: 727 Upgrades for a Stroker power [Re: Dragula] #2147997
09/05/16 02:24 PM
09/05/16 02:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,883
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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MI, usa
Don't know my torque but car goes 9.0-9.1@3350. I run A&A aluminum drum with 5 thin Alto clutches, Kolene steels,15 springs in the front clutch, .070" clearance, stock direct clutches .025" clearance, Red lined hard band, 3.8 lever, inner and outer springs on an early KD servo, late model 518 truck pan with a 2" extension, 16"x 8" cooler under the drivers seat, Wide bushing pump with the oil feed grooved. Prehistoric Turbo Action Cheetah valve body. Less than 100 psi line pressure. Clutches and band looked like new at 90 pass inspection. Haven't hurt a high gear clutch since going to the alumnium drum.
Doug

Re: 727 Upgrades for a Stroker power [Re: dvw] #2148029
09/05/16 03:13 PM
09/05/16 03:13 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,418
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Online content OP
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Why is the aluminum drum good for high gear?


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: 727 Upgrades for a Stroker power [Re: Dragula] #2148191
09/05/16 07:09 PM
09/05/16 07:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,002
Joplin, Mo
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rt66jim Offline
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Joplin, Mo
I know you may not want to hear this, I would seriously consider a Turbo 400. JMO

Re: 727 Upgrades for a Stroker power [Re: rt66jim] #2148205
09/05/16 07:40 PM
09/05/16 07:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,475
Sydney,Australia
tex013 Offline
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Sydney,Australia
Originally Posted By rt66jim
I know you may not want to hear this, I would seriously consider a Turbo 400. JMO

This is what ATI recommended for my 440 - especially as I was thinking transbrake .

Tex


New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
Re: 727 Upgrades for a Stroker power [Re: rt66jim] #2148283
09/05/16 09:17 PM
09/05/16 09:17 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,418
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Online content OP
I Live Here
Dragula  Online Content OP
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Posts: 12,418
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Originally Posted By rt66jim
I know you may not want to hear this, I would seriously consider a Turbo 400. JMO


If high gear lets go again, that may be on the table...Been thinking about that already. But they are gawd awful heavy. At this point my builds have been good to 700hp, but I think this engine is putting out a lot more torque....The ATI convertor I have says its for Blown Alky applications, and they said it would stall just above 3k which is tighter than I wanted, but would keep the heat down and drivability good.....Well I have no trouble hitting 4400rpm with it.

Last edited by Dragula; 09/05/16 09:22 PM.

'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: 727 Upgrades for a Stroker power [Re: Dragula] #2148317
09/05/16 09:48 PM
09/05/16 09:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,883
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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MI, usa
Originally Posted By Dragula
Why is the aluminum drum good for high gear?
.
I can't say. The only thing I can think of is that it is easier to accelerate it from the stopped 2nd gear position. It has never hurt a 3rd gear clutch even with the heavy A&A steel drum. However the clutches look much better with the lighter drum, so does the KD band. Stock input and outputs as well. Over 350 passes. It did hurt the splines on the stock front planet. It was replaced with another stocker, over 100 passes now. I'm ready to take a look at it next week.
Doug

Re: 727 Upgrades for a Stroker power [Re: Dragula] #2148420
09/05/16 11:59 PM
09/05/16 11:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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TRENDZ Offline
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Is the high gear drum the newer version with the bigger piston? A&A does some pump support mods to increase flow to the high gear drum. Also need to set the line pressure to get high gear to hold with high TQ combos. I would call A&A and get a recommendation on your parts list.


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: 727 Upgrades for a Stroker power [Re: TRENDZ] #2148501
09/06/16 01:29 AM
09/06/16 01:29 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,845
Tampa
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DusterDave Offline
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Follow this 727 build and you should be good to go.

CRT 727 Build


Gone to the dark side with an LS3 powered '57 Chevy 210
Re: 727 Upgrades for a Stroker power [Re: Dragula] #2148545
09/06/16 02:50 AM
09/06/16 02:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Monte_Smith Offline
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North Alabama
A Turbo 400 does not have to be "god awful heavy". Our weighs within a few pounds of what our Reid cased power glide weighed

Re: 727 Upgrades for a Stroker power [Re: Dragula] #2148670
09/06/16 11:11 AM
09/06/16 11:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,402
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
My 727 has a steel 5 pinion planetary. The aluminum ones will strip the splines out.
Typical bolt in sprag, TA Cheetah RMVB, cast aluminum deep pan, and A&A billet steel drum.
I'd love to have one of Cope's new valvebodies that allow 2nd gear launch.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: 727 Upgrades for a Stroker power [Re: rt66jim] #2148850
09/06/16 02:59 PM
09/06/16 02:59 PM
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Graham, WA
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Graham, WA
Originally Posted By rt66jim
I know you may not want to hear this, I would seriously consider a Turbo 400. JMO


If I had as much invested in your project as you do, I would go with the ATI Th400 with the Mopar case. It is in their catalog and makes sense to me. I have no problem with Hybrids, if it does the job reliably.


1986 Dodge Ramcharger 440 2wd, Bracket Racer Under Construction
1998 Ram 2500 QuadCab, new daily driver.
2008 Honda Element
2014 Carry-On 7x14 Cargo Trailer
Re: 727 Upgrades for a Stroker power [Re: Dragula] #2148905
09/06/16 04:00 PM
09/06/16 04:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,308
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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I had Dave at Pro Trans,661-940-7400 put my 727 together for my old pump gas Duster when it made 612 HP and 644 ft lbs of torque. It had steel 4 gear planetary assemblys front and rear, one of his manual RVB stock drums front and rear and all of the other good parts he puts in his builds. The only reason I know that is I had the aluminum sprague break in the first converter and I took the trans apart to clean the small broken parts out of it.
I beat the snout out of that tranny from day one shifting well above 70000 RPM most of the times at the track and on ths street occasionally whistling
I added a lot of different parts to that motor and had several different lower power motors in it with two different converters, the last motor combination(518 C.I.) made 727 HP and 698 ft lbs at 4300 ft on 91 octane Oregon pump swill on a DTS engine dyno in Klamath Falls, OR boogie
I do have one of his older SS/AH 727 trannys with all straight cut gears, custom gear ratio and aluminum drums front and rear, that was a state of the art SS tranny back in the mid 1990s when I got it, now it is considered a dinosuar by the NHRA SS and Stock racers.
I'll use it in my next bracket car that will run in the mid to low 8s devil I need to take it apart now as I had it in the Duster when the 8 3/4 broke and it managed to take the rear spraque out, I think confused


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 727 Upgrades for a Stroker power [Re: Dragula] #2148947
09/06/16 05:09 PM
09/06/16 05:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,763
Hot Rod Ridge
FastmOp Offline
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Hot Rod Ridge
Transact of indy.

Re: 727 Upgrades for a Stroker power [Re: Cab_Burge] #2149043
09/06/16 07:12 PM
09/06/16 07:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,760
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda Offline
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Originally Posted By Cab_Burge

I beat the snout out of that tranny from day one shifting well above 70000 RPM most of the times at the track and on ths street occasionally whistling

70000 rpm? eek Are you running a turbine engine in that car? wave


In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Re: 727 Upgrades for a Stroker power [Re: TRENDZ] #2149222
09/06/16 10:48 PM
09/06/16 10:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,883
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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Originally Posted By TRENDZ
Is the high gear drum the newer version with the bigger piston? A&A does some pump support mods to increase flow to the high gear drum. Also need to set the line pressure to get high gear to hold with high TQ combos. I would call A&A and get a recommendation on your parts list.

To be honest i don't remember if it has the larger piston. I'll have to check when I inspect it. Another note, planets are 3 pin.
Doug

Re: 727 Upgrades for a Stroker power [Re: GomangoCuda] #2149242
09/06/16 11:16 PM
09/06/16 11:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,308
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
Originally Posted By GomangoCuda
Originally Posted By Cab_Burge

I beat the snout out of that tranny from day one shifting well above 70000 RPM most of the times at the track and on ths street occasionally whistling

70000 rpm? eek Are you running a turbine engine in that car? wave
OOPS, one to many zeros blush7000 RPM, not 70,000 realcrazy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 727 Upgrades for a Stroker power [Re: Dragula] #2149257
09/06/16 11:46 PM
09/06/16 11:46 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134
Lost in Time
Iowan Offline
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Lost in Time
Whats wrong with 70,000? up


Have a great day
Iowan

"obsolete is neat"

Re: 727 Upgrades for a Stroker power [Re: Dragula] #2149298
09/07/16 12:22 AM
09/07/16 12:22 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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Unless you like building the trans yourself, I would call CRT and have them build you a transmission.
I piece/part built my transmission looking for deals on the parts, but the shipping costs really added up, so any savings were fairly slim.

If you are building it yourself, I'd add the to your list a Bullet front servo with "O"-ring sealed cover. This shares the same oil path as high gear, so you don't want leakage here.

https://transmissioncenter.net/shop/727-...-cover-and-pin/

As mentioned, a steel front gear.

Re: 727 Upgrades for a Stroker power [Re: 451Mopar] #2149303
09/07/16 12:38 AM
09/07/16 12:38 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,418
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Online content OP
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Dragula  Online Content OP
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Right now, I am making a list of parts and or mods needed. Trans is in good shape except for a bushing, a shim, some clutches and the plates. Nothing too bad. Mainly some high gear slippage.

So until my guy retires, or I learn how to build them, I just need a few pointers to relay back and see what we may have missed. Then again, this trans has a few years on it...

We have not made this much Hp before, and we may need to improve on our current build...

Had I started from scratch knowing I was going to make this kind of hp, we might have gone a different route.

Do they stis make the Griener valve bodies? I have one and would love to switch this trans to one.


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
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