Re: Not Good...........When Hemi's Go Bad $$$$
[Re: LAD 524]
#2123931
08/03/16 11:31 AM
08/03/16 11:31 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,476 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
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It had a swinging picked up with a trap door and a windage tray. We also drilled the drain back holes in the valley of the block bigger.
Last edited by Dragula; 08/03/16 11:33 AM.
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Re: Not Good...........When Hemi's Go Bad $$$$
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#2123941
08/03/16 11:46 AM
08/03/16 11:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938 Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich
top fuel
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top fuel
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Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
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10 quart pan is no way too small........UNLESS you are trapping all the oil in the top of the motor I agree.
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Re: Not Good...........When Hemi's Go Bad $$$$
[Re: Dragula]
#2123962
08/03/16 12:26 PM
08/03/16 12:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,593 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
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Don't look as bad as expected.I feel your pain,,,,,,
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: Not Good...........When Hemi's Go Bad $$$$
[Re: Dragula]
#2123987
08/03/16 12:59 PM
08/03/16 12:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,492 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
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Randy...you do NOT need a bigger pan w/ more oil. You just need to control the oil you have in it better. I have a normal center sump pan w/ 7.5 quarts in it and I've never hurt anything in 10 years. You are either trapping all of it in the top of the motor or it's bleeding out everywhere else it shouldn't be.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Not Good...........When Hemi's Go Bad $$$$
[Re: Dragula]
#2123991
08/03/16 01:03 PM
08/03/16 01:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890 North Alabama
Monte_Smith
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master
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North Alabama
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...........or it was a clearance issue.
Have no idea if that was the case here, but too many guys try to out trick themselves. Oiling system mods and tight clearances because they read about NASCAR or Pro-Stock motors or whatever run tight clearances. That's fine, if you use the same meticulous preparation and parts they do. Even if your $800 crank checks PERFECT, you can NOT run it as tight as you can a $4000 crank, because it's simply not as good of a crank and it won't hold those clearances under stress. Same applies to rods and other parts. What works for high level motors does not work for mid level motors if you don't use the same type parts and practices. Also those motors put up tight are redone after every race and in the case of CUP cars, the crank and rods usually go on the trash heap after a race.
So on the average bracket or performance motor........build it loose, stay away from the ultra light oils, use common sense, address drain back issues and just run it. Don't out trick yourself.
Again, don't know if any of this applies in this case........but that rod just looked tight or out of round, causing it to be tight
Last edited by Monte_Smith; 08/03/16 01:53 PM.
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Re: Not Good...........When Hemi's Go Bad $$$$
[Re: Dragula]
#2124054
08/03/16 02:26 PM
08/03/16 02:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,091 MN
JERICOGTX
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I can't add too much to this, but the car looks cool with the Shaker back on it.
69 GTX
68 Road Runner
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Re: Not Good...........When Hemi's Go Bad $$$$
[Re: Dragula]
#2124061
08/03/16 02:36 PM
08/03/16 02:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,521 Minnesota
Hemi_Joel
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master
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Minnesota
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When I dynoed my stroker 392 early hemi in February, I had a sight tube on the side of the pan. It was holding 5 + quarts in suspension during a pull. I had 12 quarts in my 8 quart pan just to keep enuff oil in the bottom of the pan during a pull. If I did not have the sight tube, I'm sure that it would have sucked air into the oil pump. It is a problem I need to address. A scraper is being built and 2 more drainback tubes are being added to the heads. Maybe since it is a dragster pan, it is worse? Anyway, your Hemi could have been holding to much in suspension and sucked air into the oil pump.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: Not Good...........When Hemi's Go Bad $$$$
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#2124100
08/03/16 03:37 PM
08/03/16 03:37 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,719 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
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Bend,OR USA
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Joel, is that water in the oil or some special trick oil?
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 08/03/16 03:38 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Not Good...........When Hemi's Go Bad $$$$
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2124121
08/03/16 04:04 PM
08/03/16 04:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,091 MN
JERICOGTX
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Joel, is that water in the oil or some special trick oil? Lots of water thanks to a pinhole leak in the combustion chamber.
Last edited by JERICOGTX; 08/03/16 04:05 PM.
69 GTX
68 Road Runner
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Re: Not Good...........When Hemi's Go Bad $$$$
[Re: Dragula]
#2124154
08/03/16 05:07 PM
08/03/16 05:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,531 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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So on the average bracket or performance motor........build it loose, stay away from the ultra light oils, use common sense, address drain back issues and just run it. Don't out trick yourself. That's always been my philosophy. Just because it works in a Pro Stock or Cup motor doesn't mean it's even close to correct for your old school bracket/hot street build. From what i've seen, With no mods to the block, an Indy wedge block holds close to two qts of oil in the valley. Don't know if the hemi blocks are the same or not.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Not Good...........When Hemi's Go Bad $$$$
[Re: Mopar_Rich]
#2124305
08/03/16 09:00 PM
08/03/16 09:00 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,476 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
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10 quart pan is no way too small........UNLESS you are trapping all the oil in the top of the motor I agree. Ok, so if that is true, what is the fix for a problem I am not sure where it is? We already did a bunch of oil control mods, what did I miss? ...Clearances were good. This is the second year on the motor and we double checked all that over the winter. When watching both vids full screen on my big LCD screen, I can see the oil pressure gauge well enough to tell if something happened. Now, I said I missed some warning signs and I figured the run I burned the bearing was the 6.35 pass where I shifted high gear and the shift light stays on........Now this IS the run I know I burned the bearing initially as I lost 4mph. I mis-diagnosed this as a third gear trans issue for low fluid. I had to add 1 quart to the trans....When I thought about the engine failure later, I assumed I lost pressure in the oil system on that run as that is the last qualifier and that is how I burned the bearing. But now I get to view the vid on a big screen, and I am NOT seeing an engine oil pressure loss when shifting into high gear like I thought. I am assuming I missed it because that track has such a short shut down, I have to watch the finish line instead of the gauges..... I take a look at both vids again, and watch oil pressure....First one, rock steady +40 at idle and 80 from the launch on, and rock steady in the shut down slowly returning to 40.... Second vid, idle is maybe 25-30 at best, and it hits 80 down the track, but then bounces all over after letting off. It appears maybe something happens before that run...There is deinitly a change in the idle oil pressure and the shut down. Engine temp would have been nearly the same on both runs. Wondering if some junk broke loose in the motor and found its way to the #7 rod. Had almost 20 passes on the engine, many were 1/4 mile which would have loaded the engine for a lot longer than 6 seconds.
Last edited by Dragula; 08/03/16 09:31 PM.
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Re: Not Good...........When Hemi's Go Bad $$$$
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#2124319
08/03/16 09:29 PM
08/03/16 09:29 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,476 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
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When I dynoed my stroker 392 early hemi in February, I had a sight tube on the side of the pan. It was holding 5 + quarts in suspension during a pull. I had 12 quarts in my 8 quart pan just to keep enuff oil in the bottom of the pan during a pull. If I did not have the sight tube, I'm sure that it would have sucked air into the oil pump. It is a problem I need to address. A scraper is being built and 2 more drainback tubes are being added to the heads. Maybe since it is a dragster pan, it is worse? Anyway, your Hemi could have been holding to much in suspension and sucked air into the oil pump. Been there done that with the last block....World Block drilled the head deck holes into the water jacket. No hemi I had ever owned previously had ever been drilled into the water jackets...Found that out the hard way....Pin hole in the head would have been a lot easier to fix.
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Re: Not Good...........When Hemi's Go Bad $$$$
[Re: Dragula]
#2124680
08/04/16 10:38 AM
08/04/16 10:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,492 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
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I Live Here
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FWIW...the Camaro I drive turned rod bearings in the 436" sb twice. It took 25 1/8 mile runs both times before it showed any signs of trying to come apart. The first time it started knocking after making a pass that was 8 mph slow, the 2nd time I caught it earlier when I noticed the oil pressure gauge bouncing in the water box. Turns out the guy who freshened up the engine for the owner removed the oil restrictors in the back of the block (Dart Little M) and never told the owner. This was a proven combo that had been run for 5+ years, so why he removed them, I have no idea. Once we found that, fixed the damage and reassembled (I did it), it's run great ever since.
Like Monte, I have never done much of anything to the oiling systems on big blocks other than clean and smooth drainback areas of the block and run clearances on the loose side. Single line ext. p/u systems and they run great. Only thing different in my hemi is that it does not oil the lifters at all, so all the oil is either going to the crank or heads.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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