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Need help.. dart still wont start #208005
01/29/09 06:54 PM
01/29/09 06:54 PM
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middle Tennessee
mopower440 Offline OP
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Recap: Its a 1972 dart with 440 and electronic ignition, a while back it refused to start, it would try and hit but just wouldnt start. I swapped out the ECU box and it fired right up. well, its doing the same exact thing now so i have now put 2 ECU boxes on it and its still doing the same thing, just hits but wont start, but surely both new ECU boxes arent bad, is there anything else that would have the same symptoms as the ECU bad? Would the voltage regulator cause the same thing? I got to get it back running.
thanks

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208006
01/29/09 06:59 PM
01/29/09 06:59 PM
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Cochise County Arizona
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Does your ECU have a ground wire coming off where it mounts to? Heard not having a ground can cause ECUs to go bad. Tried a new Ballast resistor?

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208007
01/29/09 07:00 PM
01/29/09 07:00 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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you might check your reluctor gap and or plug in an extra dist & spin it by hand & see if it gives you a good spark.


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Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: SPWC] #208008
01/29/09 07:26 PM
01/29/09 07:26 PM
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middle Tennessee
mopower440 Offline OP
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I bypassed the ballast to see if that was it, no go.. I dont have another distributor to try.. I swear though, it acts just like it did when the first ecu went bad..

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208009
01/29/09 07:41 PM
01/29/09 07:41 PM
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mopower440 Offline OP
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what does the gap need to be between the reluctor and pickup?

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208010
01/29/09 07:45 PM
01/29/09 07:45 PM
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RapidRobert Offline
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Yeah I had a couple of ECU's go bad just from sitting, threw me for awhile especially by the 3rd time I wasn't even thinking ECU.


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Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208011
01/29/09 08:03 PM
01/29/09 08:03 PM
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.008 but you might reduce it to .006 but make that at the closest part as the reluctor/magnet usually aren't parallel & note your shaft side play while you're at it.


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Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: RapidRobert] #208012
01/29/09 08:24 PM
01/29/09 08:24 PM
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middle Tennessee
mopower440 Offline OP
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I went to oreilly and got another ecu, same thing so i figured it was faulty, so i took it back and went to autozone and bought one and still the same, so i dont think its the ecu this time even though it acts like it did when it went bad the first time..i dont know, im going to check that gap but i dont think thats it, any other places to look?

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208013
01/29/09 08:34 PM
01/29/09 08:34 PM
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You might take the dist that's in it out & spin it & see what you get for spark & check the other (2)basics fuel & compression. Plugs look OK? It just started acting up out of the clear blue w nothing being changed.


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Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: RapidRobert] #208014
01/29/09 09:59 PM
01/29/09 09:59 PM
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Grand Prairie,Texas
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Have you tried a new set of plugs? You might have gas soaked the ones in there now.

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: stumpy] #208015
01/30/09 01:37 AM
01/30/09 01:37 AM
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Nampa, ID
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Change the plugs. A friend went through this same thing on his 67 Cougar. It turned out that the weak Optima battery would crank it just enough to spin it decent, but not fire the fouled plugs. Drop a new set in and it fired right up.

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: None2Slow] #208016
01/30/09 08:38 PM
01/30/09 08:38 PM
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middle Tennessee
mopower440 Offline OP
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plugs are fine, what i dont understand is that its acting EXACTLY the same as it did a month ago when changing the ecu fixed it, its doing the same thing being that when cranking it over it acts like it wants to start but wont, if i put a jumper battery on it and get it turning over real fast it tries to run but just wont, just like the time when i replaced the ecu and it fixed it, now the ecu's arent fixing it..

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208017
01/30/09 08:51 PM
01/30/09 08:51 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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could you have some one crank w the key while you hold the coil wire 1/4" from ground & see if there's continuous sparks


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Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208018
01/30/09 08:54 PM
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Block to body ground.

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: MoparforLife] #208019
01/30/09 09:57 PM
01/30/09 09:57 PM
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Detroit Michigan
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You need to check for spark and fuel.
Pull a plug wire and see if you have good spark.
I bumped the coil wire on my brothers Dart this past summer putting the air cleaner back on after adjusting the carb. for a stalling/not wanting to start condition and the engine wouldn't restart. I pulled the coil wire out of the coil and it was so burnt up I don't know how it ever ran.
I put a used coil wire on it that I had laying around and the car fired right up and purred like a kitten.

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208020
01/31/09 11:04 AM
01/31/09 11:04 AM
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Tampa , Fl
MoparJoe Offline
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Is the ECU a 5 pin? I wents thru this a little while back on a car, it was wired with the MP kit and 4 pin ecu, when the ECU took a dump I got another from autozone and didn't notice it was a 5 pin- I thought they have been obselete for years.

On mine it would crank and sputter but not much else, after I figured out the problem I ran a wire from the ballast to the 5th pin and it hit on the first crank.

The voltage regulator wouldn't have anything to do with it, it's not part of the ignition.

I would look at the ballast resistor also, if you have the wrong ballast it may be frying the ECU.

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: MoparJoe] #208021
01/31/09 11:19 AM
01/31/09 11:19 AM
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mopower440 Offline OP
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no, its a 4 pin and simgle ballast, although it used to run on either the 5 or 4 pin ecu, but i always use the 4-pin..

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208022
01/31/09 02:39 PM
01/31/09 02:39 PM
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well, i took the distributor out of the block and spun it and it is making spark, i even tried the other 2 ecu's that are supposedly bad and they made the same spark, It is a bluish purple spark, i just pulled a plug wire off and stuck another plug in it while i spun the distributor, i also pulled the coil wire out of the coil a little bit and spun the distributor and it made bunches of spark. with the ballast plugged up im only getting 5.5 volts to the coil and with the ballast bypassed im getting 8.5 volts to the coil..still wont run after all this messing, i did ohm the pickup coil and its 276 and it changes if i spin the distributor shaft but ends up back at 276, saw on the tech archives that it should be between 375-425, but i thought these either worked or didnt work at all, meaning no spark produced? what the heck do i do now?

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208023
01/31/09 02:56 PM
01/31/09 02:56 PM
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Have you tried using fresh gasoline.I like to have worn one of my legs out once trying to start a motorcycle.Come to find out,the gas would not even light with a match.

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208024
01/31/09 03:04 PM
01/31/09 03:04 PM
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We got good spark. & those voltage readings were during cranking? I would still keep it simple & check compression EDIT your ECU's/dist pickup are good. If your initial is good is it possible that the chain has jumped? Please do a compression test.

Last edited by RapidRobert; 01/31/09 03:09 PM.

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Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: RapidRobert] #208025
01/31/09 10:48 PM
01/31/09 10:48 PM
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mopower440 Offline OP
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Should the spark be blue or yellow? I dont know what else to do after today. I went and bought yet another ecu, same thing, then i bought a new pickup coil, still nothing, tried running another ground strap from the engine to the body, nothing, took apart the bulkhead connector, everything fine, change the coil, still nothing, bypassed the ballast, same thing, what else is there possibly? Just puzzles the crap out of me because it acts EXACTLY like it did when i swapped the ecu and that fixed it then, but not now..I dont think the timing chain jumped, i built this engine about 5 years ago and it probably has 1500 miles on it and has never given a problem. Im about ready to throw in the towel and sell it, but i have 11 years invested in this car and finally got it where i want it, and now i cant get it to run..I built it 10 years ago and its NEVER gave me any trouble..

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208026
01/31/09 11:08 PM
01/31/09 11:08 PM
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Blue spark is hotter yellow is weaker. Dont throw in the towel we will get this. Ok: we have a nice blue/purple spark(& dist timed conservatively at 5 or 10 before). Fuel, I think you're on top of that(& the plugs would most likely indicate if there was a problem either bone dry or wet fouled) so I would take 20 minutes & do a compression test. (in fact I'll pay you to do it). just kidding EDIT I reread your orig post & not a compression issue because you put in another ECU & it fired up(for awhile). to recap: with a helper cranking w THE KEY you have a nice/blue spark with the coil wire 1/4" away from ground?

Last edited by RapidRobert; 02/01/09 01:11 AM.

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Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208027
02/01/09 09:07 AM
02/01/09 09:07 AM
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have you tried starting at the basics? check comporession adn timing? get #1 lined up make sure everything is where it is supposed to be.if you have spark down to teh plugs and good fuel,than you have a base engine concern.Ive seen tining cahins fail way before thier time-even double roller chains and less than 10,000 miles.The mopar electronic system is pretty simple.pull teh cap off and actually watch teh dist turn as you crank the engine.if you have a good spark at teh end of the wire,good fuel,and proper timing,look at internal engine.


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Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mousefink] #208028
02/01/09 09:25 AM
02/01/09 09:25 AM
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Well I like to run the reluctor gap at .002.
Now it's time to do voltage testes at the coil and ballast with key on and as cranking. may be a weak amp gauge. when they are week you wont get the voltage to the switch and beyond you need.
Or you can just bypass the amp gauge by putting both terminals on one post for now.

(or bad bulkhead connections)

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: Dodgem] #208029
02/01/09 09:47 AM
02/01/09 09:47 AM
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If you have spark, compression, fuel, and timing right it has to fire and run.
Take it to somebody that knows what they are doing before you wash the engine down with fuel from repeated starting failures. Wouldn't be the first one I have seen it happen to.

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: MoparforLife] #208030
02/01/09 09:54 AM
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i bypassed the amp gauge years ago for safety..

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208031
02/01/09 10:14 AM
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I had a similar problem with a /6, the solution was to charge the battery. Even though the engine spun quickly it would not start until after the battery was charged. Problem went away and never returned!

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: MO_PA] #208032
02/01/09 10:25 AM
02/01/09 10:25 AM
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could the reluctor ring itself be bad? I dont really see how being all it is a piece of metal, but isnt it magnetized? If it was bad wouldnt it not make spark? The parts houses sell them so they must go bad?

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: MO_PA] #208033
02/01/09 10:26 AM
02/01/09 10:26 AM
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Quote:

I had a similar problem with a /6, the solution was to charge the battery. Even though the engine spun quickly it would not start until after the battery was charged. Problem went away and never returned!



I agree that it sounds like battery or grounds or a combination of both, but this has been hashed and rehashed along with about everything else. Reason I made the help statement above. Time to get hands competent on help.

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: MoparforLife] #208034
02/01/09 10:33 AM
02/01/09 10:33 AM
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Thats whats making me so dang mad..i am competent, i built this car from nothing but a shell and its always been fine, NEVER any ignition problems, and there just isnt much to the ignition on these things..when it did this the first time and a new ecu fixed it, it made sense since the ecu was an autozone unit and about 10 years old now. But now the ecu's are not correcting the problem EVEN THOUGH its acting IDENTICAL to the way it did when the ecu went out..just like it, get it cranking over and it will sputter a fe times but never start, JUST like before when the new ecu fixed it. When the car is fine, it never sputters or 'tries' to hit like this, it just VROMM, fires up like thunder..

Last edited by mopower440; 02/01/09 10:40 AM.
Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208035
02/01/09 11:16 AM
02/01/09 11:16 AM
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RapidRobert Offline
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Chad I know you are very competent(I've kept up on your posts) but since you are(almost) at your wits end I'd go thru the basics as mentioned. compression test, set dist @ 5 or 10 btdc on compression stroke, see if you have spark when the KEY is turned, take top off carb & see if theres water globules in the bowl, correct firing order. You're gonna laugh when you find it


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Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: RapidRobert] #208036
02/01/09 12:28 PM
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I just went through the same problem with the 440 in my Fury, ran fine when I parked it, left it for about a month and then wouldnt start.

Mine turned out it to be it only needed new plugs since the old ones were so old and got gas soaked enough while trying to start it in cold weather to not fire after a sitting a while but that was after I went through every ignition component, swapping distributors and I actually pulled the carb and rebuilt it (it needed it anyway)

Look for excessive play in the distributor shaft and then pull the dist and go through it; might be time for a rebuild or replacement. Also put a stethoscope against the front cover while someone cranks it and listen to the timing chain; if its broke or jumped you can hear it and Ive had double rollers fail.


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Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208037
02/01/09 01:26 PM
02/01/09 01:26 PM
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Quote:

Thats whats making me so dang mad..i am competent, i built this car from nothing but a shell and its always been fine, NEVER any ignition problems, and there just isnt much to the ignition on these things..when it did this the first time and a new ecu fixed it, it made sense since the ecu was an autozone unit and about 10 years old now. But now the ecu's are not correcting the problem EVEN THOUGH its acting IDENTICAL to the way it did when the ecu went out..just like it, get it cranking over and it will sputter a fe times but never start, JUST like before when the new ecu fixed it. When the car is fine, it never sputters or 'tries' to hit like this, it just VROMM, fires up like thunder..


I am not questioning your competency or anything like that but the thing is it seems that you like the rest of us can look at something so long and so much that we tend to over look something that would jump out an bite a new look. (been there)
I am still questioning if you have checked all your engine grounds. Remember that just because the engine cranks over and that you have the battery grounded to the radiator support or to the body of the vehicle it is not nessessarly grounding the engine and the engine needs a good ground to properly operate the ignition system. The engine like I have said has not a good ground with out having a separate ground from it to the body of the vehicle because the engine and everything back is mounted with rubber insulators.. Usually from the rear of the engine to the fire wall.

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: MoparforLife] #208038
02/01/09 04:15 PM
02/01/09 04:15 PM
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middle Tennessee
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Been at it all day again and still nothing. Ok, i checked for TDC and made sure timing has not jumped, its dead on still, compression is 150-155, as it was also, so the engine is fine thank god. So i dig in my box of junk and i had another ECU plug, so i made my own harness with it to eliminate it being a wiring problem of the cars harness, still same crap!! Did just the same, so the engine and wiring are ok for sure..I then took all 3 ecu's i have and directly clamped them to the engine itself to make damn sure they were grounded, same thing although the old rusty one seemed to make it 'try' to hit a little better than the new one and the other failed one i had..The ONLY 2 things i have not bought new for it is the coil and the reluctor ring in the distributor, but i did try another coil that i have, should be good but not positive. Can the reluctor ring be bad? I dont see how being that it just spins and the pickup coil's magnetization picks up on it..? If the coil was bad would it still produce a spark like it is but maybe not strong enough? Ive never seen anything like this ever! Old mopars have always been second nature to me till this..HELP!!

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208039
02/01/09 05:37 PM
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Quote:

Been at it all day again and still nothing. Ok, i checked for TDC and made sure timing has not jumped, its dead on still, compression is 150-155, as it was also, so the engine is fine thank god. So i dig in my box of junk and i had another ECU plug, so i made my own harness with it to eliminate it being a wiring problem of the cars harness, still same crap!! Did just the same, so the engine and wiring are ok for sure..I then took all 3 ecu's i have and directly clamped them to the engine itself to make damn sure they were grounded, same thing although the old rusty one seemed to make it 'try' to hit a little better than the new one and the other failed one i had..The ONLY 2 things i have not bought new for it is the coil and the reluctor ring in the distributor, but i did try another coil that i have, should be good but not positive. Can the reluctor ring be bad? I dont see how being that it just spins and the pickup coil's magnetization picks up on it..? If the coil was bad would it still produce a spark like it is but maybe not strong enough? Ive never seen anything like this ever! Old mopars have always been second nature to me till this..HELP!!


You still to me are not saying if the engine has a ground to the body. Needs to have one. Battery ground to body is not grounding the engine and the engine needs a ground to the body. grounding the ECU to the engine is meaningless if the engine hasn't it own ground to the body or frame. I repeat the engine has not got a good ground without the separate ground. If you have one fine but if you don't get one on and try it. Like I said they are usually from the rear of the head or bell housing to the firewall.

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: MoparforLife] #208040
02/01/09 05:39 PM
02/01/09 05:39 PM
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Grand Prairie,Texas
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You said tthe plugs were good. Is that because you have replaced them since this problem started or because the were new before that. It doesn't take a lot of cranking a motor over with weak or no fire to gas soak the plugs and it isn't easy to see on the plugs either.

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: stumpy] #208041
02/01/09 06:32 PM
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yes, the battery is grounded to the engine and engine to body..

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208042
02/01/09 06:53 PM
02/01/09 06:53 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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The compression is good, the dist is timed right & it is putting out a healthy bluish/purple spark, cranking speed is good. Correct so far?. If the plugs are still OK as stumpy said & by the way are they bone dry when you check them? I'd shoot a shot of starting fluid in the carb & try it. People have referred to it as "liquid sand" but I've used it on many baffling hard to start situations & it's got me going.


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Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: RapidRobert] #208043
02/01/09 07:42 PM
02/01/09 07:42 PM
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Upper Midwest
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Thank you for clearing up the ground question. It is very common for a person to think that just because the battery is grounded in a typical fashion that the engine is also grounded and it is not. Never too many grounds. I have seen these symptoms several times from the ground problem along with intermittent miss firing. I am thinking that when you find it is will surprise you. Still recommend getting some experienced help for a new eye on things.

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208044
02/01/09 08:02 PM
02/01/09 08:02 PM
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Blair County,PA
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I didn't read all of this,too long.But,did you by chance just happen to pour a little of that stuff thats in the tank through the carb and see if it will fire? If so,it will eliminate a lot of your questions.Like I said,didn't read everything.If you have spark and fuel,it has to run or at least make an attempt unless its out of time.

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: MoparforLife] #208045
02/01/09 08:03 PM
02/01/09 08:03 PM
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middle Tennessee
mopower440 Offline OP
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The plugs were a little wet, and i did go get a new can of starting fluid, still same of course, could the dang coil be bad but still produce the spark im seeing? Theres just nothing else, the thing must be haunted or something, everything seems fine..

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208046
02/01/09 08:12 PM
02/01/09 08:12 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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they will not fire if they are wet. spray the plugs with starting fluid to clean/dry them, blow them off to dry them & put them in after they dry & shoot some starting fluid in the carb primaries while holding the throttle open. A good 2 second blast. Pump the gas SPARINGLY as in no more than 1 or 2 pumps max & dont pump it at all until it's cranked for a bit. Shoot more starting fluid if needed. We are wanting to get this to fire on starting fluid rather than on gas which is easily flooding it. Lets get this thing going before the super bowl starts.

Last edited by RapidRobert; 02/01/09 08:31 PM.
Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: RapidRobert] #208047
02/01/09 08:52 PM
02/01/09 08:52 PM
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I would just for go trying to clean the plugs after all the trying you have done and put in a new set. Also when trying to start it with the starting fluid Make sure that the choke is open and that you hold the throttle WIDE open. even if you try the old plugs hold the throttle wide open to unload a possible flooding condition. Leaving the throttle closed only aggravates a flooded condition if that is what it may be and the choices are rapidly running out.


Clean it, if it's Dirty. Oil it, if it Squeaks. But: Don't fix it, if it Works!
Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: RapidRobert] #208048
02/01/09 08:53 PM
02/01/09 08:53 PM
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middle Tennessee
mopower440 Offline OP
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Im out of time today. Thing is, after sitting a week the plugs wouldnt still be wet and causing it to not start, remember, i started working on this thing last weekend..

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208049
02/01/09 08:55 PM
02/01/09 08:55 PM
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That is right but they could be coated and not fire.

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208050
02/01/09 09:03 PM
02/01/09 09:03 PM
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Grand Prairie,Texas
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Yes they would because you have done nothing to dry them. Gas won't completely evaporate in a closed area like a cylinder.

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: stumpy] #208051
02/01/09 09:07 PM
02/01/09 09:07 PM
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Also I might add that once fouled a plug is very tough to get to pick up proper spark. Even after cleaning they sometimes take awhile of running to completely clear. (if they do)

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: MoparforLife] #208052
02/02/09 12:34 PM
02/02/09 12:34 PM
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middle Tennessee
mopower440 Offline OP
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ok, i have a question on the coil ohm readings, they say the terminal to terminal should be 0.75-0.81 ohms, mine is reading 1.5.
The reading from the tower to either terminal should be 10,000-11,000 ohms, im getting 8500, could this be off enough to cause it to not start?

Last edited by mopower440; 02/02/09 12:34 PM.
Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: RapidRobert] #208053
02/02/09 01:28 PM
02/02/09 01:28 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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Try this
Quote:

they will not fire if they are wet. spray the plugs with starting fluid to clean/dry them, blow them off to dry them & put them in after they dry & shoot some starting fluid in the carb primaries while holding the throttle open. A good 2 second blast. Pump the gas SPARINGLY as in no more than 1 or 2 pumps max & dont pump it at all until it's cranked for a bit. Shoot more starting fluid if needed. We are wanting to get this to fire on starting fluid rather than on gas which is easily flooding it.


You did say you had a nice bluish/purple spark? Your readings are OK.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208054
02/02/09 05:27 PM
02/02/09 05:27 PM
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Michigan
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Quote:

well, i took the distributor out of the block and spun it and it is making spark, i even tried the other 2 ecu's that are supposedly bad and they made the same spark, It is a bluish purple spark, i just pulled a plug wire off and stuck another plug in it while i spun the distributor, i also pulled the coil wire out of the coil a little bit and spun the distributor and it made bunches of spark. with the ballast plugged up im only getting 5.5 volts to the coil and with the ballast bypassed im getting 8.5 volts to the coil..still wont run after all this messing, i did ohm the pickup coil and its 276 and it changes if i spin the distributor shaft but ends up back at 276, saw on the tech archives that it should be between 375-425, but i thought these either worked or didnt work at all, meaning no spark produced? what the heck do i do now?





Sounds like it's not getting enough voltage to the coil to me, shouldn't it be around 12 volts starting and 9 volts running when using a ballast?

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: RapidRobert] #208055
02/02/09 08:10 PM
02/02/09 08:10 PM
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middle Tennessee
mopower440 Offline OP
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pulled the distributor back out and pulled one plug wire off and stuck a plug in it so i could spin the distributor shaft again to be sure its still firing the plugs, i guess i should have unplugged ALL the plug wires from the plugs still in the engine because when i spun the distributor shaft the car backfired louder than ive ever heard in my life! My wife came flying out of the house..i hope it didnt hurt the engine. I put the distributor back in and buckled it back up so i could turn the engine over to see if it sounded like it hurt anything and it sounds fine..and hopefully it is. I will get new plugs next.

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208056
02/02/09 09:01 PM
02/02/09 09:01 PM
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middle Tennessee
mopower440 Offline OP
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Something i have to get and dont know where, there is a plastic bushing that is pinned on the distributor shaft that keeps the shaft from going up and down, when i pulled the distributor out it broke apart on the floor. This is not the bushing everyone replaces with the bronze one, this is on the distributor shaft itself under the base and keeps the shaft from going up and down. None of the parts houses stock it, anyone know where to get one quick?

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208057
02/02/09 09:48 PM
02/02/09 09:48 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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I think it's possibly a MP(only) piece as some one on here had one for sale the other day & it was in the familiar clear cellophane with MP lettering/logos on it. Most backfires I have heard sound almost like a shotgun & just as loud. The 1st item I check is the muffler.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: RapidRobert] #208058
02/03/09 07:38 AM
02/03/09 07:38 AM
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middle Tennessee
mopower440 Offline OP
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as i said, i can take spark plugs and put a plug wire on them and spin the distributor shaft and they will blue spark, but i borrowed a spark tester from work wich looks like a spark plug with a clip on it, you hook a plug wire to it and clip it to the block and see if it will fire, it wont fire that, but will a spark plug. We use these testers on cadillacs at work and im not sure if the old mopar ignition should be strong enough to fire one of these anyways...?

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208059
02/03/09 09:00 PM
02/03/09 09:00 PM
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middle Tennessee
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ok, before i can go any further i have to replace that bushing on the distributor. I have another old junk distributor with the bushing, the question is, how to knock the roll-pin out of it without busting the plastic bushing..?

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208060
02/03/09 09:08 PM
02/03/09 09:08 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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with the dist on its side supported on either side of the plastic at the right height(with each of the 2 end supports at different heights if neccessary) to keep the dist level, drive the roll pin out with a roll pin punch. The round ball edge on those punches makes a world of difference in getting roll pins out of there.


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Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: mopower440] #208061
02/03/09 09:43 PM
02/03/09 09:43 PM
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In a used distributor it is unlikely that you will get it wou and back in with out breaking it. Your local Chrysler dealer should still have them: They have been the same for many years.
Have you even tried to start the car from under the hood there by eliminating the ignition switch start side as a possible cause. All you have to do is to turn the switch to the run position and and jump the 2 terminals on the starter relay to spin the engine over. operating the carb by hand. doing this make sure that the transmission is in neutral.

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: MNobody] #208062
02/04/09 02:04 AM
02/04/09 02:04 AM
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Nevada
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dezduster Offline
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Quote:

Sounds like it's not getting enough voltage to the coil to me, shouldn't it be around 12 volts starting and 9 volts running when using a ballast?






I believe MRNOBODY is on this like like gas on your fouled plugs.
Seriously I just went through a no start,hard start situation. First if you have a propane or oxygen acetylene torch heat plugs until the porcelain is white. Do not melt electrode as I have.
In the cranking mode I had 9 volts and wouldn't start unless I put the battery charger on start? got me thinking? swapped my good battery into R/C. Still no consistent quick crisp cold starts. I had changed from the dual pick up dizzy to a standard single pick up dizzy. I gaped it at the factory spec of .008 when I installed it? SOOOO I used my dial calipers and found plastic that was .004 loosened my magnetic pick up slipped my high tech red neck feeler gauge in the pick up gap and adjusted. YEP you guessed it that fixed my problem.
Not to be pushy but double check the pick up gap and get more voltage to coil.
I was following a questionable mechanic who had also used the coil + for power to the MSD 5al not 6al box. Good luck

Last edited by dezduster; 02/04/09 02:05 AM.
Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: dezduster] #208063
02/05/09 07:29 PM
02/05/09 07:29 PM
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middle Tennessee
mopower440 Offline OP
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well, put new plugs in it and now its running!!! Thank god and you guys! Guess you all were right and fouled the plugs while cranking with the bad ECU. Im still only getting 5.4 volts at the coil while the car is sitting there running though...I have the single ballast 1.5 ohms, shouldnt there be more than 5.4 volts at that coil while its running though?

Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: RapidRobert] #208064
02/06/09 12:04 AM
02/06/09 12:04 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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Quote:

You're gonna laugh when you find it


Chad are you smiling! After all this thinking, analization, dissecting & hair pulling it was the plugs .! The run side of the dual ballast is .5 ohms, the "641" race ballast is 1/4 ohm & the MP one for orange/chrome boxe in a daily driver are I think 1 ohm so you are way over. You might jump 12V to the upstream side of your ballast to see if it's a voltage drop problem or that your ballast is too high.


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Re: Need help.. dart still wont start [Re: RapidRobert] #208065
02/06/09 10:28 AM
02/06/09 10:28 AM
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Upper Midwest
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Glad that you finally got it running. After all this trying I would for sure check and change your oil and filter. I am sure that you have gotten alot of gas into the oil.

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