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Re: Need help.. dart still wont start
[Re: RapidRobert]
#208025
01/31/09 10:48 PM
01/31/09 10:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
mopower440
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
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Should the spark be blue or yellow? I dont know what else to do after today. I went and bought yet another ecu, same thing, then i bought a new pickup coil, still nothing, tried running another ground strap from the engine to the body, nothing, took apart the bulkhead connector, everything fine, change the coil, still nothing, bypassed the ballast, same thing, what else is there possibly? Just puzzles the crap out of me because it acts EXACTLY like it did when i swapped the ecu and that fixed it then, but not now..I dont think the timing chain jumped, i built this engine about 5 years ago and it probably has 1500 miles on it and has never given a problem. Im about ready to throw in the towel and sell it, but i have 11 years invested in this car and finally got it where i want it, and now i cant get it to run..I built it 10 years ago and its NEVER gave me any trouble..
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Re: Need help.. dart still wont start
[Re: mopower440]
#208026
01/31/09 11:08 PM
01/31/09 11:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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Blue spark is hotter yellow is weaker. Dont throw in the towel we will get this. Ok: we have a nice blue/purple spark(& dist timed conservatively at 5 or 10 before). Fuel, I think you're on top of that(& the plugs would most likely indicate if there was a problem either bone dry or wet fouled) so I would take 20 minutes & do a compression test. (in fact I'll pay you to do it). just kidding  EDIT I reread your orig post & not a compression issue because you put in another ECU & it fired up(for awhile). to recap: with a helper cranking w THE KEY you have a nice/blue spark with the coil wire 1/4" away from ground?
Last edited by RapidRobert; 02/01/09 01:11 AM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Need help.. dart still wont start
[Re: mopower440]
#208027
02/01/09 09:07 AM
02/01/09 09:07 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 46
Summerfield,FLorida
mousefink
member
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member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 46
Summerfield,FLorida
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have you tried starting at the basics? check comporession adn timing? get #1 lined up make sure everything is where it is supposed to be.if you have spark down to teh plugs and good fuel,than you have a base engine concern.Ive seen tining cahins fail way before thier time-even double roller chains and less than 10,000 miles.The mopar electronic system is pretty simple.pull teh cap off and actually watch teh dist turn as you crank the engine.if you have a good spark at teh end of the wire,good fuel,and proper timing,look at internal engine.
67 Charger 383 6 pak
68 Charger 383 Magnum
73 Charger 383
72 Coronet R/T 4 speed wagon
98 Dodge Ram
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Re: Need help.. dart still wont start
[Re: MO_PA]
#208033
02/01/09 10:26 AM
02/01/09 10:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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Quote:
I had a similar problem with a /6, the solution was to charge the battery. Even though the engine spun quickly it would not start until after the battery was charged. Problem went away and never returned!
I agree that it sounds like battery or grounds or a combination of both, but this has been hashed and rehashed along with about everything else. Reason I made the help statement above. Time to get hands competent on help. 
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Re: Need help.. dart still wont start
[Re: MoparforLife]
#208034
02/01/09 10:33 AM
02/01/09 10:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
mopower440
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
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Thats whats making me so dang mad..i am competent, i built this car from nothing but a shell and its always been fine, NEVER any ignition problems, and there just isnt much to the ignition on these things..when it did this the first time and a new ecu fixed it, it made sense since the ecu was an autozone unit and about 10 years old now. But now the ecu's are not correcting the problem EVEN THOUGH its acting IDENTICAL to the way it did when the ecu went out..just like it, get it cranking over and it will sputter a fe times but never start, JUST like before when the new ecu fixed it. When the car is fine, it never sputters or 'tries' to hit like this, it just VROMM, fires up like thunder..
Last edited by mopower440; 02/01/09 10:40 AM.
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Re: Need help.. dart still wont start
[Re: RapidRobert]
#208036
02/01/09 12:28 PM
02/01/09 12:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,861
Gloucester,VA STOP MOVING HERE
RangerDan440
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,861
Gloucester,VA STOP MOVING HERE
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I just went through the same problem with the 440 in my Fury, ran fine when I parked it, left it for about a month and then wouldnt start.
Mine turned out it to be it only needed new plugs since the old ones were so old and got gas soaked enough while trying to start it in cold weather to not fire after a sitting a while but that was after I went through every ignition component, swapping distributors and I actually pulled the carb and rebuilt it (it needed it anyway)
Look for excessive play in the distributor shaft and then pull the dist and go through it; might be time for a rebuild or replacement. Also put a stethoscope against the front cover while someone cranks it and listen to the timing chain; if its broke or jumped you can hear it and Ive had double rollers fail.
68 Valiant 408
69 Charger 318
69 Cougar 351W
70 Torino GT 351C
71 Country Squire 351W
71 Road Runner 440+6
71 Satellite sedan 318
73 Duster 318
73 Challenger 383
77 Grand Prix 455
83 Malibu 9C1 383
84 Delta 88 403
87 Grand National
96 Ram 360
09 Crown Vic
10 Challenger R/T M6
15 Challenger Hellcat M6
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Re: Need help.. dart still wont start
[Re: mopower440]
#208037
02/01/09 01:26 PM
02/01/09 01:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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Quote:
Thats whats making me so dang mad..i am competent, i built this car from nothing but a shell and its always been fine, NEVER any ignition problems, and there just isnt much to the ignition on these things..when it did this the first time and a new ecu fixed it, it made sense since the ecu was an autozone unit and about 10 years old now. But now the ecu's are not correcting the problem EVEN THOUGH its acting IDENTICAL to the way it did when the ecu went out..just like it, get it cranking over and it will sputter a fe times but never start, JUST like before when the new ecu fixed it. When the car is fine, it never sputters or 'tries' to hit like this, it just VROMM, fires up like thunder..
I am not questioning your competency or anything like that but the thing is it seems that you like the rest of us can look at something so long and so much that we tend to over look something that would jump out an bite a new look. (been there)
I am still questioning if you have checked all your engine grounds. Remember that just because the engine cranks over and that you have the battery grounded to the radiator support or to the body of the vehicle it is not nessessarly grounding the engine and the engine needs a good ground to properly operate the ignition system. The engine like I have said has not a good ground with out having a separate ground from it to the body of the vehicle because the engine and everything back is mounted with rubber insulators.. Usually from the rear of the engine to the fire wall. 
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Re: Need help.. dart still wont start
[Re: MoparforLife]
#208038
02/01/09 04:15 PM
02/01/09 04:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
mopower440
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
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Been at it all day again and still nothing. Ok, i checked for TDC and made sure timing has not jumped, its dead on still, compression is 150-155, as it was also, so the engine is fine thank god. So i dig in my box of junk and i had another ECU plug, so i made my own harness with it to eliminate it being a wiring problem of the cars harness, still same crap!! Did just the same, so the engine and wiring are ok for sure..I then took all 3 ecu's i have and directly clamped them to the engine itself to make damn sure they were grounded, same thing although the old rusty one seemed to make it 'try' to hit a little better than the new one and the other failed one i had..The ONLY 2 things i have not bought new for it is the coil and the reluctor ring in the distributor, but i did try another coil that i have, should be good but not positive. Can the reluctor ring be bad? I dont see how being that it just spins and the pickup coil's magnetization picks up on it..? If the coil was bad would it still produce a spark like it is but maybe not strong enough? Ive never seen anything like this ever! Old mopars have always been second nature to me till this..HELP!!
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Re: Need help.. dart still wont start
[Re: mopower440]
#208039
02/01/09 05:37 PM
02/01/09 05:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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Quote:
Been at it all day again and still nothing. Ok, i checked for TDC and made sure timing has not jumped, its dead on still, compression is 150-155, as it was also, so the engine is fine thank god. So i dig in my box of junk and i had another ECU plug, so i made my own harness with it to eliminate it being a wiring problem of the cars harness, still same crap!! Did just the same, so the engine and wiring are ok for sure..I then took all 3 ecu's i have and directly clamped them to the engine itself to make damn sure they were grounded, same thing although the old rusty one seemed to make it 'try' to hit a little better than the new one and the other failed one i had..The ONLY 2 things i have not bought new for it is the coil and the reluctor ring in the distributor, but i did try another coil that i have, should be good but not positive. Can the reluctor ring be bad? I dont see how being that it just spins and the pickup coil's magnetization picks up on it..? If the coil was bad would it still produce a spark like it is but maybe not strong enough? Ive never seen anything like this ever! Old mopars have always been second nature to me till this..HELP!!
You still to me are not saying if the engine has a ground to the body. Needs to have one. Battery ground to body is not grounding the engine and the engine needs a ground to the body. grounding the ECU to the engine is meaningless if the engine hasn't it own ground to the body or frame. I repeat the engine has not got a good ground without the separate ground. If you have one fine but if you don't get one on and try it. Like I said they are usually from the rear of the head or bell housing to the firewall.
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Re: Need help.. dart still wont start
[Re: mopower440]
#208042
02/01/09 06:53 PM
02/01/09 06:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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The compression is good, the dist is timed right & it is putting out a healthy bluish/purple spark, cranking speed is good. Correct so far?. If the plugs are still OK as stumpy said & by the way are they bone dry when you check them? I'd shoot a shot of starting fluid in the carb & try it. People have referred to it as "liquid sand" but I've used it on many baffling hard to start situations & it's got me going.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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