Re: Time to change some rotating parts
[Re: Clanton]
#2074827
05/16/16 11:31 PM
05/16/16 11:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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I had a sit down with Vic Ellinger and ended up with just a full dish 16.69cc dish for 9/1cr,This es very close to there shelf 15cc dish but sized for a 4.351 bore[cleaned cylinders]3wks for delivery.1k$+ with pins,locks. Can you share the Technical points of his/your decision from this sit down ?
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Re: Time to change some rotating parts
[Re: Clanton]
#2075203
05/17/16 04:37 PM
05/17/16 04:37 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 149 Cleveland Ohio
Discoquik
member
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member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 149
Cleveland Ohio
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Hello There,
Mike and I had an enjoyable conversation about his car and his new build. I remember the car well over the years and it's neat to be able to help him on this new project.
The thing to keep in mind with this type of build is that you want soft, "dumbed down" chambers and pistons. Today's 18* BBC heads are available in NA and Nitrous versions because of what has been learned in the past 10 years at cylinder head companies. We have plenty of help with "swirl" with the blower on top of this type of engine. You don't want to have to "fight" nitrous or boost's extremely high cylinder pressures plus "quench" when it comes to this level of power. This car is also very heavy. You have to treat this like a tractor pull or top dragster type build. This will build heat in a hurry when the hammer is dropped.
Thick decks and skirts are key to keeping the ring grooves stable to allow the rings to do their job. If the part is flexing like a trampoline, then it doesn't matter if you have a set of $2800 P/S rings in the engine, it won't seal. Another key factor is pin strength, everyone likes to run their parts/components light, but if the pin flexes then that will cause the piston to flex as well. This leads to cracked pin bosses or decks, as well as pin galling.
The dish typically we like to start .250-.300 from the edge, this allows plenty of meat for the ring radial depths of the groove to have support. It also create stability in ring groove flatness and finish when they are cut. Tapered ring lands allow the piston to grow up top, as well as some tricks on camming and skirt profiles to prevent scuffing on the skirt.
Piston to wall clearance for forced induction can be as loose as .012, ring end gap as wide as .090-.100, and pin bore clearance set at .002-.0025", again you are compensating for the extremes when you are wide open. We go back and forth with guys wanting tighter piston to wall to prevent piston noise cold, yet want 2000hp to the flywheel. It's a trade off, just like the suspension for cruising vs. racing. Rarely is there a compromise.....
Last edited by Discoquik; 05/17/16 04:43 PM.
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Re: Time to change some rotating parts
[Re: Discoquik]
#2075331
05/17/16 08:37 PM
05/17/16 08:37 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,492 northern,Ohio,USA
Clanton
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,492
northern,Ohio,USA
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Hello There,
Mike and I had an enjoyable conversation about his car and his new build. I remember the car well over the years and it's neat to be able to help him on this new project.
The thing to keep in mind with this type of build is that you want soft, "dumbed down" chambers and pistons. Today's 18* BBC heads are available in NA and Nitrous versions because of what has been learned in the past 10 years at cylinder head companies. We have plenty of help with "swirl" with the blower on top of this type of engine. You don't want to have to "fight" nitrous or boost's extremely high cylinder pressures plus "quench" when it comes to this level of power. This car is also very heavy. You have to treat this like a tractor pull or top dragster type build. This will build heat in a hurry when the hammer is dropped.
Thick decks and skirts are key to keeping the ring grooves stable to allow the rings to do their job. If the part is flexing like a trampoline, then it doesn't matter if you have a set of $2800 P/S rings in the engine, it won't seal. Another key factor is pin strength, everyone likes to run their parts/components light, but if the pin flexes then that will cause the piston to flex as well. This leads to cracked pin bosses or decks, as well as pin galling.
The dish typically we like to start .250-.300 from the edge, this allows plenty of meat for the ring radial depths of the groove to have support. It also create stability in ring groove flatness and finish when they are cut. Tapered ring lands allow the piston to grow up top, as well as some tricks on camming and skirt profiles to prevent scuffing on the skirt.
Piston to wall clearance for forced induction can be as loose as .012, ring end gap as wide as .090-.100, and pin bore clearance set at .002-.0025", again you are compensating for the extremes when you are wide open. We go back and forth with guys wanting tighter piston to wall to prevent piston noise cold, yet want 2000hp to the flywheel. It's a trade off, just like the suspension for cruising vs. racing. Rarely is there a compromise..... Wow Vic thanks for stopping in!I appreciate the info.
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Re: Time to change some rotating parts
[Re: Clanton]
#2075774
05/18/16 12:45 PM
05/18/16 12:45 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,492 northern,Ohio,USA
Clanton
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,492
northern,Ohio,USA
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Any more questions?Not even a thank you for his info from you!
Last edited by Clanton; 05/18/16 12:46 PM.
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Re: Time to change some rotating parts
[Re: Clanton]
#2091964
06/14/16 06:24 PM
06/14/16 06:24 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 368 michigan
turbo toad
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 368
michigan
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I believe your mistaken the pic in my signature was just taking last friday In the last month 1.got the turbos mounted and started to plump them in 2.got the powerglide installed 3.finished gasket matching my indy intake 4.motor plate brackets welded in 5.got the block to the machine shop for final hone
This is me getting off my dead a@$ all while sweating my balls off 60 hours week in a steel mill
Check out my build on Facebook Ttoad Hurley its updated regularly
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Re: Time to change some rotating parts
[Re: turbo toad]
#2091977
06/14/16 06:49 PM
06/14/16 06:49 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,492 northern,Ohio,USA
Clanton
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,492
northern,Ohio,USA
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I believe your mistaken the pic in my signature was just taking last friday In the last month 1.got the turbos mounted and started to plump them in 2.got the powerglide installed 3.finished gasket matching my indy intake 4.motor plate brackets welded in 5.got the block to the machine shop for final hone
This is me getting off my dead a@$ all while sweating my balls off 60 hours week in a steel mill We all have our own limitations so Great job. Thanks Vic Ellinger and John Cope for getting things done for me!!
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Re: Time to change some rotating parts
[Re: Clanton]
#2092265
06/15/16 09:03 AM
06/15/16 09:03 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219
New York
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Love the sharp edges on the domes...
Boffin Emeritus
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