Re: Hurt my roller lifters, need better ones! Recomendations?
[Re: gregsdart]
#2063398
04/28/16 02:30 PM
04/28/16 02:30 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,384 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,384
Las Vegas
|
Just did it for the third time You can hunt around for used stuff for less I suppose. This was all new stuff. Don't have my last invoice but seems like it was $4-4500
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
|
|
|
Re: Hurt my roller lifters, need better ones! Recomendations?
[Re: PETE@BESTMACHINE]
#2063425
04/28/16 03:15 PM
04/28/16 03:15 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,020 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
OP
I Live Here
|
OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,020
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
|
How much cam end play does the engine have? Pete, It is very close to zero, somewhere around .005. I have a Milodon gear drive with thrust button, and it is pressure oiled. The block showed some serious thrust issues, and when this motor was first built it pushed a stock cover and button out so far it almost crashed the lifters against the next lobes.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
|
|
|
Re: Hurt my roller lifters, need better ones! Recomendations?
[Re: rowin4]
#2063428
04/28/16 03:17 PM
04/28/16 03:17 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,020 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
OP
I Live Here
|
OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,020
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
|
How about to much valve lash? could that pound out the needle bearings? I've always run the lash a couple thow tighter than spec, and keep a religious eye on it. Sixpackgut, I think I am Ok on burnouts. I limit rpm, and only about three seconds before I back off enough to move to the line.
Last edited by gregsdart; 04/28/16 03:27 PM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
|
|
|
Re: Hurt my roller lifters, need better ones! Recomendations?
[Re: gregsdart]
#2063499
04/28/16 05:29 PM
04/28/16 05:29 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,020 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
OP
I Live Here
|
OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,020
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
|
It has been mentioned to me the pushrods might be a part of the problem. There is virtually no give in these, where the 3/8 heavy wall pushrods probably were easier on the rest of the valve train? For those interested, the lobe numbers on the cam are Intake 1625 320-8
Exhaust 4247 336-5. The rest of the numbers are in the first post.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
|
|
|
Re: Hurt my roller lifters, need better ones! Recomendations?
[Re: gregsdart]
#2063524
04/28/16 06:42 PM
04/28/16 06:42 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,883 MI, usa
dvw
master
|
master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,883
MI, usa
|
It has been mentioned to me the pushrods might be a part of the problem. There is virtually no give in these, where the 3/8 heavy wall pushrods probably were easier on the rest of the valve train? For those interested, the lobe numbers on the cam are Intake 1625 320-8
Exhaust 4247 336-5. The rest of the numbers are in the first post. My pushrods are 7/16"x.165" tapered from Trend. So far beyond the one failed needle bearing and a set of springs all good at 285 passes. Doug
|
|
|
Re: Hurt my roller lifters, need better ones! Recomendations?
[Re: gregsdart]
#2063536
04/28/16 07:06 PM
04/28/16 07:06 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,514 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,514
So. Burlington, Vt.
|
My .02 on the cam........
It's an older super stock intake lobe, designed for max power in a high effort/high maintenance application. On top of that I'm pretty sure it's old enough so it doesn't have the benefit of spintron analysis during developement. The exhaust lobe is old too, but those are pretty stable.
I would regrind it into something more modern that was developed for a lower maintenance, bracket type application, with the understanding there could be a slight reduction of power as part of the trade off.
My suggestion: -smoother lobes - 1.7 rocker - red zone lifters - spring pressures in the range of 300-320 seat/800-825 open
The big cube motors I've done use that combo and those guys don't usually touch anything for 250-300 passes........ And that's without the high end lifters.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
|
|
|
Re: Hurt my roller lifters, need better ones! Recomendations?
[Re: gregsdart]
#2063560
04/28/16 07:42 PM
04/28/16 07:42 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,020 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
OP
I Live Here
|
OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,020
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
|
Thanks Dwayne. Are the red zone lifters you mention the EZ roll lifters? Is it possible to run those Comp 947 springs without the smallest spring to bring the load down, if the numbers work out to 300 seat and 800 over the nose? I still have that RR735 Isky rollercam, which ran very close (.05 or less difference in the 1/4) to as fast as the current cam and it was with the 1.55 rockers. Isky told me it would be OK with a 1.7 rocker, which would yield a gross lift of .823 intake and .776 exhaust.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
|
|
|
Re: Hurt my roller lifters, need better ones! Recomendations?
[Re: gregsdart]
#2063593
04/28/16 08:58 PM
04/28/16 08:58 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,514 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,514
So. Burlington, Vt.
|
If you want the bushings, it's the red zone lifters with the EZ roll option. I don't know if the springs will have enough pressure without the inners, but if they do, it's fine to run them that way. You should check each spring for it's actual coil bind height, and go up from there to determine the installed height. I've seen examples of those triple springs where they start to stack up before the coil bind spec, and when that happens you'll see the pressures spike right up. It's really best to avoid that if possible. The coil bind spec for the 947 is 1.145, but I've seen where it's closer to 1.180-.1200 on occasion. In your application, I think I'd probably have went to a 2.050 installed height to use that spring, although that can be tough to get on a 440-1 head.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
|
|
|
Re: Hurt my roller lifters, need better ones! Recomendations?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2063626
04/28/16 10:00 PM
04/28/16 10:00 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,020 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
OP
I Live Here
|
OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,020
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
|
If you want the bushings, it's the red zone lifters with the EZ roll option. I don't know if the springs will have enough pressure without the inners, but if they do, it's fine to run them that way. You should check each spring for it's actual coil bind height, and go up from there to determine the installed height. I've seen examples of those triple springs where they start to stack up before the coil bind spec, and when that happens you'll see the pressures spike right up. It's really best to avoid that if possible. The coil bind spec for the 947 is 1.145, but I've seen where it's closer to 1.180-.1200 on occasion. In your application, I think I'd probably have went to a 2.050 installed height to use that spring, although that can be tough to get on a 440-1 head. Thanks for all the input. I can get 2.050 installed height, so the Isky cam Will work and leave extra room.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
|
|
|
Re: Hurt my roller lifters, need better ones! Recomendations?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2063627
04/28/16 10:02 PM
04/28/16 10:02 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,675 Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
roadhazard
master
|
master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,675
Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
|
My .02 on the cam........
It's an older super stock intake lobe, designed for max power in a high effort/high maintenance application. On top of that I'm pretty sure it's old enough so it doesn't have the benefit of spintron analysis during developement. The exhaust lobe is old too, but those are pretty stable.
I would regrind it into something more modern that was developed for a lower maintenance, bracket type application, with the understanding there could be a slight reduction of power as part of the trade off.
My suggestion: -smoother lobes - 1.7 rocker - red zone lifters - spring pressures in the range of 300-320 seat/800-825 open
The big cube motors I've done use that combo and those guys don't usually touch anything for 250-300 passes........ And that's without the high end lifters.
Been following this post to see what wasn't "happy" in your valve train set up and hopefully learn a lil something along the way. My initial thought was pushrods but you have that covered with those monsters fast68 has taken the time to give some good solid advise
|
|
|
Re: Hurt my roller lifters, need better ones! Recomendations?
[Re: gregsdart]
#2063632
04/28/16 10:13 PM
04/28/16 10:13 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,514 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,514
So. Burlington, Vt.
|
The bottom line is, there may not really be anything "wrong" at all with his cam/spring/ rocker/pushrod combo. It could be as simple as those lifters just aren't up to the task.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
|
|
|
|
|