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Re: pros and cons of solid flat tappet vs solid roller [Re: mopar dave] #2062872
04/27/16 05:32 PM
04/27/16 05:32 PM
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Washington
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madscientist Offline
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It's 2016. 7k might as well be at idle.

Some day, it will occur dawn on some of us that RPM is just as important as torque, maybe more so.

If you can't spin a 511 7k may as well park it. Guys leave way too much on the table with tight converters, no gear and tow truck RPM.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: pros and cons of solid flat tappet vs solid roller [Re: mopar dave] #2062882
04/27/16 05:43 PM
04/27/16 05:43 PM
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central ohio
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nss guy Offline
pro stock
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central ohio
I leave at 2200 rpm and shift at 6200, hit the stripe at 6700.
10.20's .30's thru thru the mufflers in street trim with the exception of 10.5 slicks. Don't know how much more for a mostly street car would need.

12068476_1019572638105555_740309623049467653_o.jpg
Re: pros and cons of solid flat tappet vs solid roller [Re: mopar dave] #2062892
04/27/16 05:59 PM
04/27/16 05:59 PM
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Huntsville, AL
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Airwoofer Offline
mopar
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My 500 would spin over 9000 but that probably wasn't too good for it. I shifted it at 7000-7500 on the track to be "easy" on the motor. We'll see how it likes to rev with the steel rods I am putting in instead of the aluminum ones.

As for the beehive springs, I saw the springs on the Burick Monte works on one day at the track. They are really thin bee hives which blew me away as that thing probably has about an inch of valve lift.

Re: pros and cons of solid flat tappet vs solid roller [Re: nss guy] #2062895
04/27/16 06:03 PM
04/27/16 06:03 PM
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Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline
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@ Madscientist

Generally maybe but a lot heads today have the flow capabilities to push the Torque and HP peaks past where a lot of people feel safe pushing a stock block RB motor. Also not everybody runs MW heads on their 511's so the port flow/velocity is somewhat of an RPM "check valve" limiting the RPM no matter where the valvetrain could go.

and (opinions vary I guess but) many if not most 493-511's usually wind up dropping into heavy B and E bodies with automatics and mid 3 series carriers, so not everybody wants or needs to turn them much past 6200-6500 to have a fun and formidable torque monster. Ron's (383Man's) 63 B has a comparably mild Street driven 493 with ported EZ MW's and runs 10.70's through the muffs, not too shabby and he's not revving all that high. so I guess just because you can doesn't mean you should...or even need to.

Last edited by Streetwize; 04/27/16 06:05 PM.

WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0
Re: pros and cons of solid flat tappet vs solid roller [Re: Streetwize] #2062900
04/27/16 06:13 PM
04/27/16 06:13 PM
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PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
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And your stock blocks will thank you for it by lasting a lot longer


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.38@138.67


Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: pros and cons of solid flat tappet vs solid roller [Re: nss guy] #2062911
04/27/16 06:20 PM
04/27/16 06:20 PM
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Posts: 8,162
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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no, but thru the traps maybe.

Re: pros and cons of solid flat tappet vs solid roller [Re: DARTH V8Я] #2062914
04/27/16 06:21 PM
04/27/16 06:21 PM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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I have only seen that in magazines.

Re: pros and cons of solid flat tappet vs solid roller [Re: mopar dave] #2062977
04/27/16 08:21 PM
04/27/16 08:21 PM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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i have made up my mind on the hydro roller. Really dont want to go that way. I put one in my dads motor and it wont rev past 5500 which is fine for him as hes 89 anyway. I doubt he revs it past 4000 anyway. Thanks for all the input on this subject. Gives me a bunch to ponder.

Re: pros and cons of solid flat tappet vs solid roller [Re: DrCharles] #2063110
04/27/16 11:14 PM
04/27/16 11:14 PM
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Tampa
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DusterDave Offline
top fuel
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Originally Posted By DrCharles
Originally Posted By DusterDave
The big con with a flat tappet cam is, if your break-in procedure wasn't done perfectly, and/or you are not using the correct oil (which is getting harder to find locally anymore)


I'm pretty sure those little bottles of ZDDP (zinc) are still available?

Quote:
you run the risk of some lobes going round, and really messing up your crank, bearings and piston skirts. It happened to me, and many, many others.


I can see the wear particles from the cam & lifters being thrown into the cylinder bores by splash, but how would they get through the oil filter to the crank and bearings? shruggy

Nobody's mentioned the old "Mini-Express" mushroom cam/lifters P3690588 (316 adv. @ 0.654) and there's a bigger one 328, 0.690. Lifters are a PITA to change but the few people who have run one have had good things to say about the performance. I think it's around 270 duration @.050. A lot cheaper than a roller setup... work

So, you say you can't afford one of them high dollar roller cam setups like the rich Ricky racers have? No problem, bro, just do what Joe Dirt did!



Gone to the dark side with an LS3 powered '57 Chevy 210
Re: pros and cons of solid flat tappet vs solid roller [Re: mopar dave] #2063135
04/27/16 11:37 PM
04/27/16 11:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154
Its a TRAP!
DARTH V8Я Offline
Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
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Its a TRAP!
Who said anything about revving it to 7 grand? The LS7 was just an example.

@ mad scientist, there literally millions of beehive springs in use (and some pretty high horsepower high revving engines) with an almost next to nothing failure rate. IF you broke so many springs.. something else is at foot.


When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..
Re: pros and cons of solid flat tappet vs solid roller [Re: DusterDave] #2063182
04/28/16 01:19 AM
04/28/16 01:19 AM
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Posts: 8,162
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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sweet. maybe i can get enough money for one of those fansy haircuts like that too.

Re: pros and cons of solid flat tappet vs solid roller [Re: mopar dave] #2063210
04/28/16 04:05 AM
04/28/16 04:05 AM
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Balt. Md
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383man Offline
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Originally Posted By mopar dave
Im glad to see a few flat tappet users out there having good results. I'm really not too worried about the amount of power loss with a flat tappet at this point as this will be 90% street driven. Just a pain to break in.
The roller worries would be with the valve spring and lift rebuilds. I used to have mine rebuilt every 3yrs which was about 2000miles and maybe 50 passes.



I dont think I said that I do use the Comp EDM lifters and as said i have had great results with no problems so far in the almost 5 years my eng has been together. Ron

Re: pros and cons of solid flat tappet vs solid roller [Re: B3422W5] #2063211
04/28/16 04:12 AM
04/28/16 04:12 AM
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Balt. Md
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383man Offline
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Originally Posted By B3422W5
I will give you great advice.
Call Dwayne Porter, go with his suggestion, and have him order you a cam.
He knows 100% what he is doing and that takes the guesswork out of it.
I have personal experience using his help, and the cams worked perfect.



That is great advice as its what I did. I was considering a roller but after talking to Dwayne and telling him how much I plan to drive on the street he recomended that I would most likely be happier with a solid flat tappet which I am. He speced my custom grind solid flat tappet and I could not be happier with the results and great service it has given me.
Dwayne is a Pro who does this every day and knows what he is doing and I would say he is as good as anyone out there.
Heck I have been an auto tech all my life and been around hotrods and muscle cars most of my life and feel I know cams pretty well. But I dont do it (Performance cams and heads) for a living every day and I dont run my engines on dyno's like he does when he builds them so he gets to see what has worked best and he can test his work which helps him know what works good and best. You cant go wrong calling Dwayne and talking to him. Good luck with your build which ever cam you decide on. up Ron

Last edited by 383man; 04/28/16 06:57 PM.
Re: pros and cons of solid flat tappet vs solid roller [Re: Streetwize] #2063212
04/28/16 04:17 AM
04/28/16 04:17 AM
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Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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383man Offline
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Originally Posted By Streetwize
@ Madscientist

Generally maybe but a lot heads today have the flow capabilities to push the Torque and HP peaks past where a lot of people feel safe pushing a stock block RB motor. Also not everybody runs MW heads on their 511's so the port flow/velocity is somewhat of an RPM "check valve" limiting the RPM no matter where the valvetrain could go.

and (opinions vary I guess but) many if not most 493-511's usually wind up dropping into heavy B and E bodies with automatics and mid 3 series carriers, so not everybody wants or needs to turn them much past 6200-6500 to have a fun and formidable torque monster. Ron's (383Man's) 63 B has a comparably mild Street driven 493 with ported EZ MW's and runs 10.70's through the muffs, not too shabby and he's not revving all that high. so I guess just because you can doesn't mean you should...or even need to.



Thank you for the kind words Wize. wave I foot brake to about 2k on the line and shift about 6200 and trap around 6400. Thats when I look at the tach because I wont lie most of the time I shift when it feels right but its about 6200. Ron

Re: pros and cons of solid flat tappet vs solid roller [Re: DARTH V8Я] #2063272
04/28/16 10:16 AM
04/28/16 10:16 AM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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I tossed around the idea of a hydro roller just for the low maintainence of it. thanks for the thought, but i have made up my mind on the solid lifter whether it be roller or flat, but i'm still leaning tward the flat. thanks

Re: pros and cons of solid flat tappet vs solid roller [Re: 383man] #2063273
04/28/16 10:18 AM
04/28/16 10:18 AM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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Thanks Ron, that is good advise. I will be calling him in the next few weeks. what comp and cam you running if ya dont mind?

Re: pros and cons of solid flat tappet vs solid roller [Re: pittsburghracer] #2063363
04/28/16 12:51 PM
04/28/16 12:51 PM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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for the record I do not like reving any engine past its point of making power. I was doing some calculations on Wallace for rpm thou traps with 4.30 gear and 28" tire. results were just over 7000rpm. may have to put the 4.10 back in.
anyone have Dwayne porter number?

Re: pros and cons of solid flat tappet vs solid roller [Re: mopar dave] #2063374
04/28/16 01:01 PM
04/28/16 01:01 PM
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
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'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
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Re: pros and cons of solid flat tappet vs solid roller [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2063390
04/28/16 01:23 PM
04/28/16 01:23 PM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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thanks

Re: pros and cons of solid flat tappet vs solid roller [Re: Airwoofer] #2063435
04/28/16 02:37 PM
04/28/16 02:37 PM
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North Alabama
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Monte_Smith Offline
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North Alabama
Originally Posted By Airwoofer


As for the beehive springs, I saw the springs on the Burick Monte works on one day at the track. They are really thin bee hives which blew me away as that thing probably has about an inch of valve lift.
Say what? Don't know what you thought you saw, but it was no bee hive spring. What you saw was a Pac triple spring with 450lbs of seat pressure. And the cam is about 1.200 on the lift

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