Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2031272
03/14/16 11:17 PM
03/14/16 11:17 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
|
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
|
it seems logical that since the rotor to reluctor clocking is fixed (unless you alter it with the reluctor with the multiple holes) then when the reluctor teeth are moved closer to the magnet (being advanced by the springs) so it will fire earlier then how could that not move the rotor (which is locked to the reluctor) the same # of degrees closer or away (as the case may be) from the cap terminal (rotor phasing). I would suggest wrap a shop towell around the dist lower shaft to protect it then clamp it reasonably snug in your vise straight up vertical then go back to one of my earlier posts & work with that procedure & you'll see. its like in a SB CW rotation dist, the springs/slots/weights let the reluctor rotate CW so a tooth reaches the magnet maybe 10 deg sooner (advanced) AND the rotor (which moves with it) is also rotated 10 deg CW so the rotor ends up exactly in the same position relative to the cap (same phasing). EDIT Krautrock this was for you. P, I thought for a second I had you convinced! When can you do the test (no need for a video). I did my part. PS Trendz manned up & paid the bet, I'm waiting on you If I can find some springs in a day or so I will run it for you and video it and post it.. its all about the relationship to the cap.. why do you think they call it mech advance... the light is always in sync with the rotor but not if you put a line on the cap EDIT why would the top twist is it wasnt gonna move
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 03/14/16 11:19 PM.
|
|
|
Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2031279
03/14/16 11:24 PM
03/14/16 11:24 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
|
Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
|
the rotor phasing does not change with mech adv/RPM and that (only) was our point of contention. with a functioning mech adv system (slots/weights/springs) with the vac can capped: if the rotor is pointing dead on at the center of a cap terminal at any RPM which is the RP then any amt of RPM/mech adv change will not change the RP (it'll still be dead on) or a bit behind or ahead whichever you started with). this is the hardest ten bucks I've ever earned in my life! (& I ain't collected yet). EDIT P yes make sure your mech springs are functioning & drill the hole in the cap as this is ONLY about if the rotor moves or does not move with the light on it as you rev it & get into the springs (advance)
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
|
|
|
Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2031287
03/14/16 11:36 PM
03/14/16 11:36 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
|
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
|
Your right.. its not worth the added talking at the moment.. I'll find the stuff.. I'm sure I still have some dist junk around.. I'll video the test so all can see... I wonder why they call it mech advance
|
|
|
Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: krautrock]
#2031307
03/14/16 11:58 PM
03/14/16 11:58 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
|
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
|
I remember how we tested this in the lab.. we set a strobe light up at the same frequency as the dist was turning in the machine.. it was rock solid.. then as the rpm went up you could see the rotor move.. then turn up the strobe frequency to find that rpm and verify the dist machine rpm... then we would verify the angle of advance.. we had to do this on each engine group
|
|
|
Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: krautrock]
#2031443
03/15/16 03:00 AM
03/15/16 03:00 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,295 Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,295
Someplace you aren't
|
i'm with Pbody on this, when you adjust initial you move the dist. housing and the rotor stays in the same spot. with the mech advance the rotor must move in relation to the dist cap or you can't actually have advance.
not sure why you can see it with the vacuum and not with the mech advance. must have something to do with the pickup coil trigger the timing light... Maybe the mech and vac together moves enough so he can see it, but just not with only the mech A distrubutor machine is neat to use. I was going to snag one, but i finally decided tech was moving away from this stuff fast enough it wasnt worth it. Better to put the money into efi, comp controlled timing.
I want my fair share
|
|
|
Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: krautrock]
#2031602
03/15/16 12:40 PM
03/15/16 12:40 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
|
Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
|
i'm with Pbody on this, when you adjust initial you move the dist. housing and the rotor stays in the same spot. with the mech advance the rotor must move in relation to the dist cap or you can't actually have advance.
not sure why you can see it with the vacuum and not with the mech advance. must have something to do with the pickup coil trigger the timing light... KR are you in, ($10 entry fee)!
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
|
|
|
Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: mickm]
#2031711
03/15/16 03:35 PM
03/15/16 03:35 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
|
I have a dist machine, but I have no Chrysler distributors. Send me an old distributor and I will make a video. RapidRobert is right... And I was the first to dispute him. Anything that happens BEFORE the pickup is irrelevant.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
|
|
|
Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: TRENDZ]
#2031714
03/15/16 03:41 PM
03/15/16 03:41 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
|
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
|
I have a dist machine, but I have no Chrysler distributors. Send me an old distributor and I will make a video. RapidRobert is right... And I was the first to dispute him. Anything that happens BEFORE the pickup is irrelevant. I'm still trying to find at least one somewhat heavier spring... if I can find something I'll send you a dist EDIT since you have a dist machine the light springs will be fine.. just put a line on the cap for the reference point.. let me put this back together... send me you address in a PM
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 03/15/16 03:44 PM.
|
|
|
Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: Crizila]
#2032089
03/16/16 01:13 AM
03/16/16 01:13 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506 Az
Crizila
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
|
My peep-in cap for checking rotor to cap indexing.
Fastest 300
|
|
|
Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: Crizila]
#2032138
03/16/16 02:22 AM
03/16/16 02:22 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
|
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
|
I only have a vent in the ones I run... I found a dist today and put it together and will ship it to Rick so he can run it on his dist machine
|
|
|
Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2032313
03/16/16 12:24 PM
03/16/16 12:24 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
|
Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
|
P body it is time to settle up. Lets do this if you would please, take the dist before you ship it & clamp the lower shaft in your vise with a rag to protect the shaft of course & turn the housing till the magnet is lined up with a tooth and note the rotor position relation to the cap (which is the RP clocking) this is RP with no mech advance. now turn the housing just a bit CW so the tooth is now a bit to the left (CCW) of the magnet & this is/will be the tooth approaching the magnet in normal CW rotation. Now hold the housing rock steady still then twist the rotor CW (which is giving it mech advance) till the tooth is lined up with the magnet (like before) which'll be when it fires which is what you will see/be at with the light and the rotor will be in the same clocked position on the housing/cap terminal as it was before you twisted (advanced) the reluctor/rotor.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
|
|
|
Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2032325
03/16/16 12:35 PM
03/16/16 12:35 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
|
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
|
P body it is time to settle up. Lets do this if you would please, take the dist before you ship it & clamp the lower shaft in your vise with a rag to protect the shaft of course & turn the housing till the magnet is lined up with a tooth and note the rotor position relation to the cap (which is the RP clocking) this is RP with no mech advance. now turn the housing just a bit CW so the tooth is now a bit to the left (CCW) of the magnet & this is/will be the tooth approaching the magnet in normal CW rotation. Now hold the housing rock steady still then twist the rotor CW (which is giving it mech advance) till the tooth is lined up with the magnet (like before) which'll be when it fires which is what you will see/be at with the light and the rotor will be in the same clocked position on the housing/cap terminal as it was before you twisted (advanced) the reluctor/rotor. Thats the thing.. it will move BUT its not gonna move much.. and as you said.. the light will still show the rotor.. but if you mark the cap and start increasing the rpm.. the mech advance starts to move the rotor... the light still flashes at the rotor.. but the rotor moved in relationship to the mark on the cap... like I say.. the slots in the advance plate only gives about 16* of advance at the crank... 8* on the dist(or what ever the advance plate is set up for)
|
|
|
Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2032358
03/16/16 01:34 PM
03/16/16 01:34 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
|
Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
|
It sounds like we gotta wait till you can put a cap with the drilled hole on a running eng & with the light on it see if it (the RP) changes. I've never used a dist machine but I'm sure it would show the same thing. Maybe this will help: say the rotor is dead centered on the cap terminal at rest (no mech adv). the other cap terminal is 45 deg away, now if a can with 11 stamped on it swung the rotor around the arc 11 deg (& it will) and say the mech adv added 24 at the crank (which is reasonable/feasible) with reasonable slot lengths which'd be 12 at the rotor, if the mech adv did alter RP (it wont but lets say it will) the rotor will have moved a total of 23 deg (11+12) & there'd be no way it could fire with that great of a distance between rotor tip and cap terminal as that is half the circumferential distance between the cap terminals. Humor me if you will! try the test in the vise. I agree it makes NO sense that since the reluctor moves with adv (& it does) then how could the rotor which is locked to it set in stone NOT move also. it is hard to visually grasp & I could not mentally grab the how it did what it does till this issue came & I went out into the kitchen & grabbed a dist to try to prove my case even tho I've seen it multiple times when doing dist work on vehicles so I know it to be true but unlike Trendz I could not mentally grasp exactly HOW until this. Just Take 5 minutes with your vise or just held in your hands. Hurry, lunch is in an hour and a half & I wanna order a steak (your treat)!
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
|
|
|
Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2032374
03/16/16 02:04 PM
03/16/16 02:04 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
|
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
|
I know what your saying.. like you said.. in a vise and you twist the upper section the rotor turns.. thats the mech advance
|
|
|
Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: mickm]
#2032495
03/16/16 05:12 PM
03/16/16 05:12 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,295 Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,295
Someplace you aren't
|
If the rotor doesnt reach the terminal sooner, how does the timing advance?
I want my fair share
|
|
|
Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#2032503
03/16/16 05:26 PM
03/16/16 05:26 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
|
If the rotor doesnt reach the terminal sooner, how does the timing advance? It does it by retarding the engine.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
|
|
|
|
|