Re: Starting from scratch which head?
[Re: Eric]
#2024920
03/05/16 11:29 AM
03/05/16 11:29 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219
New York
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We had something like this back in the day. Most racers were going back into the heads and cam to get that last 5 hp, and winning by .001. Then Olds and Cadillac announced OHV engines...
For everyone who thinks turbo (or nitrous) is somehow easy, or cheating: try it.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Starting from scratch which head?
[Re: Sport440]
#2024962
03/05/16 01:15 PM
03/05/16 01:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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The SR,s are the middle of the two other heads listed. Ported as your SR,s are, Id stay with them. Your car is light , and for the type of racing you do, is a fine head for your performance needs. My answer, no on the Victors and the Trick flows, keep what you have.
x2. If you're looking for a BIG performance increase, something else is going to be needed.
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Re: Starting from scratch which head?
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#2025041
03/05/16 03:27 PM
03/05/16 03:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,088 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,088
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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This is a 499 low deck. So it all depends on what power gains the OP is willing to invest in. I agree, a B1 deal is a great way to go, but cost and maintenance may be a factor here.
Last edited by gregsdart; 03/05/16 03:42 PM.
8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Starting from scratch which head?
[Re: gregsdart]
#2025058
03/05/16 03:41 PM
03/05/16 03:41 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,273 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,273
PA.
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Last time I talked to Eric he was still going to run a STOCK block. If so I would definitely stay with what he has.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.38@138.67
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Starting from scratch which head?
[Re: Eric]
#2025064
03/05/16 03:48 PM
03/05/16 03:48 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890 North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Look at the original question though. 440-1s are not in the question, neither is stock block, nor budget. Just says from scratch 499. The question was should he change from his SRs to Trick Flows or Victors. The answer to THAT question is a resounding no. Seems to be nothing there except added cost.
Budget is always a concern, but he didn't mention that either.
We all know air flow is the key to power and many progress to a point based on what they have. I have done the same. I had stock heads, so went to Indy's as I didn't have to change pistons. But then I built a B-1 which was a new build.
So lets look at NEW build scenario. No parts in hand and no "deals". Block is a block, crank is a crank, rods, pistons, machine work, etc. So we get to the heads. Valve is a valve, spring is a spring and so on. How much do B-1 castings cost vs INDY. Are they higher, I truly don't know. What about intake cost? Rocker gear. A nice set of T&Ds cost the same for either head.
I guess my whole thing here is.......if you are building something NEW and are not basing it on anything you HAVE, why would anybody build anything OTHER than a B-1 motor or maybe even a Predator(although manifolds are an issue here)............Now there are different segments to this and some will be quick to point out "this head takes stock valve gear, etc". I understand all that, but am basing my comparison on you have NOTHING, plus are building a real race car motor, with all aftermarket parts and selection is not based on using cheaper and or stock parts.
Last edited by Monte_Smith; 03/05/16 03:50 PM.
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Re: Starting from scratch which head?
[Re: Eric]
#2025140
03/05/16 06:18 PM
03/05/16 06:18 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 478 Alberta, Canada
451Guy
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 478
Alberta, Canada
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I ran modern cylinder head ported SR's on my super street demon. Due to a cracking issue I replaced them with -1 325's that I got from Dwayne. I chose to go that route because I am more worried in super street about a car that works well on the throttle stop and not one that runs ultimate et. I chose the smaller heads to keep the velocity in the port up when using the stop. The change between the two heads? Exact same et picked up 1 mph. Exactly what Dwayne told me would happen. Unless you are changing everything stick with what you have!!!
Thanx 451 Guy
512 cu in 71 Demon Super Street Car - NO LONGER - Broke Crank Best ET 9.57 @ 139.96
451 cu in Pump Gas - 71 Demon Super Street Car Best ET 9.99 @ 136.80 - UPDATED - NEW BEST 9.91 @ 136.90
512 cu in 69 Charger R/T Best ET 11.39 @ 118.11
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Re: Starting from scratch which head?
[Re: Eric]
#2025670
03/06/16 01:01 PM
03/06/16 01:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 77 British Columbia Canada
Challenger340
member
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member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 77
British Columbia Canada
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The INDY SR's can make very respectable power when ported properly, with the added benefit to relatively cost effective Rocker setups with V/good Geometry. 849 hp and 753 Trq on a 540 inch, .690" Lift /287* @ .050 Roller https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzWhkC4dAI0Just sayín, if you already have them, you may wish to address just "how much" you want on a 499 with easy on parts Cam selection ? versus, just how much "more" you wish to spend for 440-1's that will undoubtedly need port work also ?
Last edited by Challenger340; 03/06/16 01:16 PM.
Better to be a "has been" than a "never was".
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Re: Starting from scratch which head?
[Re: Eric]
#2025910
03/06/16 08:01 PM
03/06/16 08:01 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,422 Pittsburgh PA
Eric
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,422
Pittsburgh PA
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Thanks for the replies folks. It looks like another set of SR's from BGR is in order. Mine are damaged to the point that for marginally more dollars will result in a new set. I'm really starting to think with a stock block keeping the power level where it's at is a good thing also.
5.53 @ 125 1/8th on the launch control..more left in her!
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Re: Starting from scratch which head?
[Re: Eric]
#2025995
03/06/16 09:30 PM
03/06/16 09:30 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,422 Pittsburgh PA
Eric
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,422
Pittsburgh PA
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Nope means nothing 😉 I'm middle of the pack for what it's worth
5.53 @ 125 1/8th on the launch control..more left in her!
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Re: Starting from scratch which head?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2026064
03/06/16 10:53 PM
03/06/16 10:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,936 NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 16,936
NC
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I would basically agree with what Monte is saying, unless there is a desired/targeted hp level you're after, that could easily be reached with the lesser cost/easier option. If you're trying to make the most power you can, then buy the highest power potential heads you can afford.
For a super class 499, if I had CNC ported MW size SR's, I'd just keep using them until I was looking to make a big move in power........ at which point you'll have to start thinking about a real block. This is my thinking as well. I like the 440-1 CNC345 over the SR CNC, but unless you need the incremental increase, save your money for the big change which includes an aftermarket block, etc. The head swap you asked about is not worth the cost, IMO. Now your last post said your SR's need to be replaced. I would go with 440-1 CNC345 and better rockers until you make the big leap.
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Re: Starting from scratch which head?
[Re: Eric]
#2026072
03/06/16 10:59 PM
03/06/16 10:59 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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I wouldnt build a B1 engine to go bracket racing, put some TF heads on it with a decent roller and make 6-700hp reliably for that.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Starting from scratch which head?
[Re: Eric]
#2026113
03/06/16 11:33 PM
03/06/16 11:33 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,448 central ohio
nss guy
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,448
central ohio
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Nope means nothing 😉 I'm middle of the pack for what it's worth Exactly, you can have a p.o.s. and if it runs the number and you hit the tree the guys with 800ci motors and all the bells whistles will just spend more $$$ to try and beat you. Low maintenance and consistency would probably be something to look for. Can't have fun or win any $$$ always working on the car. This type of racing is way different than heads up or class ( stock/superstock) racing. Again just saying, I may wrong
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Re: Starting from scratch which head?
[Re: Eric]
#2026278
03/07/16 02:25 AM
03/07/16 02:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,273 Canada
WO23Coronet
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,273
Canada
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Could you use the B1's and just not set them on kill? OU812 did a thread on some basically stock B1's (mild cleanup, valve job etc) that kept a reasonable port volume, but still flowed alot of air (380's?)that you wouldn't have to spin the day lights out of your 499 to make good power. That way when you get your aftermarket block you can set them on kill at that time. Edit: here's the link https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/105599/1.html
Last edited by WO23Coronet; 03/07/16 12:52 PM.
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