Doing a cam swap for a customer, Rockers dont oil now
#2011334
02/13/16 09:07 PM
02/13/16 09:07 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,016 Finally a HUSKER again
Moparnut426
OP
I Live Here
|
OP
I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,016
Finally a HUSKER again
|
Ok, Went from a comp cam hydrailic flat tappet to a Hughes engines Hydro Roller and he wanted a OE look so i swapped from the roller rockers to crane rockers to clear stock Valve Covers. Its a 440 source stroker, stealth headed engine. I Also had to change to a -.050 lock and space the springs to get to the correct spring rate per instructions. Also running Hughes bananna grooved shafts and the holes are down and pointing to the exhaust side. I think thats correct, but theres no instructions with the shafts. So Heres the problem,
I prelubed the engine and didnt see any signs of oil up top, nothing,
Im pretty frustrated so I just shut the lights off and went home. Tomorrow with a clear head im gonna pull the rocker bolts that feed the top end and roll it over to see if the oil flows out into the shafts.
Did I install the shafts wrong? Are the bolts blocking the oil to the shafts? I did have to shim the shafts up to get geometry corrected.
If theres something I missed Id appreciate any info...
Kinda makes me feel pretty dumb cause Ive done this same kind of swap dozzens of times.
Thanks
Kasey
Last edited by Moparnut426; 02/13/16 09:07 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Doing a cam swap for a customer, Rockers dont oil now
[Re: Moparnut426]
#2011338
02/13/16 09:13 PM
02/13/16 09:13 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
|
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
|
you have to turn the motor over. Rotate the crank (ie: cam) and watch the oil fly. DAMHIK
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
|
|
|
Re: Doing a cam swap for a customer, Rockers dont oil now
[Re: Moparnut426]
#2011340
02/13/16 09:14 PM
02/13/16 09:14 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
|
Do the shims have a hole big enough to flow oil around the shaft bolt? Also, realize that the shafts only get oil in two camshaft positions if the engine has stock oiling with no cam/bearing mods.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
|
|
|
Re: Doing a cam swap for a customer, Rockers dont oil now
[Re: Moparnut426]
#2011465
02/13/16 11:59 PM
02/13/16 11:59 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
|
Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
|
Oil flows at TDC #6 firing and #8 firing. Put the slit on zero on the tab (#6 firing) & preoil and back up the crank 3/4 or a turn (CCW) & preoil again. measure/cut a strip of paper 17.082" with your calipers and use it on the dampener as a ruler to go back 3/4 turn or drop the intergear/dist back in & go CCW till the rotor goes back 3/4 of a circle (or on #8 plug wire location) then preoil again. see if that works for you
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
|
|
|
Re: Doing a cam swap for a customer, Rockers dont oil now
[Re: Moparnut426]
#2011520
02/14/16 01:07 AM
02/14/16 01:07 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
|
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
|
Have you started to back track yet... pull the bolt that feed, next is the head gasket.. does it have the hole in both.. then your down to the cam bearings..... but first do you have a pressure gauge in the oil port.. see if you have pressure first... you know they arent oiling.. start back trackin
|
|
|
Re: Doing a cam swap for a customer, Rockers dont oil now
[Re: Moparnut426]
#2011626
02/14/16 10:32 AM
02/14/16 10:32 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,038 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,038
Tulsa OK
|
A pre oiler is a must here IMO. Not only does that hole need to line up to oil but its got to fill the passage and the rocker shaft in that short amount of time before you see any coming out. Both the cams I have used recently are grooved for full time rocker oil.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
|
|
|
Re: Doing a cam swap for a customer, Rockers dont oil now
[Re: Moparnut426]
#2012173
02/15/16 01:02 AM
02/15/16 01:02 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,016 Finally a HUSKER again
Moparnut426
OP
I Live Here
|
OP
I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,016
Finally a HUSKER again
|
Well, guys, I pulled the 2 bolts that go into the oil feed holes on the heads, rolled the engine over and I could see oil start to feed the shafts.
I decided to fire it up, ran it for a while and saw oil dribbling from the top holes on the crane ductile rockers. But is didnt see oil from the pushrod cup oiler holes. I might be gun shy here, I shut it down and pulled the rockers off the passenger side. No galling, no discoloring, and no issues but the cups worry me. YES i blew through the oil holes in the rockers they are a new set the customer had found.
Im gonna cut a set of valve cover tops off and run it at various RPM for a few minutes. Do big block mopars have lower top end oiling than a small block? I have more experience on the small blocks. Runs great, no top end noise, no other issues found so maybe im just being over cautious.
thanks
|
|
|
Re: Doing a cam swap for a customer, Rockers dont oil now
[Re: Moparnut426]
#2012462
02/15/16 03:12 PM
02/15/16 03:12 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
|
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
|
Can only speak to my motor, but I know when I primed it new without valve covers, it spewed oil all over the inner fenders in short order. It's got stealth heads and Pro-Comp Stainless bronze bushed rockers.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
|
|
|
Re: Doing a cam swap for a customer, Rockers dont oil now
[Re: Moparnut426]
#2012630
02/15/16 06:53 PM
02/15/16 06:53 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4
master
|
master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
|
Just in case this wasn't covered. Stock big block rocker shafts only have one hole per rocker, those holes have to be positioned down for proper oiling. I have seen this before , minimal oil to the rocker and a sure disaster coming.
it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
|
|
|
Re: Doing a cam swap for a customer, Rockers dont oil now
[Re: rowin4]
#2012970
02/16/16 04:03 AM
02/16/16 04:03 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
|
Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
|
As said I'd pull the dist/intergear & preoil it (CCW) with a 5/16" hex shaft and a reverseable drill. with the dampener in the right clocking and everything up top buttoned up You'll (easily) see how it is oiling. I dont see a major issue or one that cant be easily solved but this lets you evaluate WO the eng running. Holler with any news
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
|
|
|
Re: Doing a cam swap for a customer, Rockers dont oil now
[Re: Moparnut426]
#2013002
02/16/16 08:59 AM
02/16/16 08:59 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 354 Livonia Michigan
440dart
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 354
Livonia Michigan
|
You said you switched from flat tappet to roller, what lifters are you using? Are the lifter bores bushed? all the oil maybe blowing past the lifters. Try priming with the intake off, you will be able to see how much oil is getting past the lifters.
Yes I live in Michigan, so there is still 1 light on
|
|
|
Re: Doing a cam swap for a customer, Rockers dont oil now
[Re: Moparnut426]
#2015018
02/18/16 10:54 PM
02/18/16 10:54 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
|
Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
|
thank you for the heads up on the rocker/cup oiling as I need to check/address that myself on the circle track 360 & I mighta just assumed it was good (when there is adequate oil in the shafts) if you had not jogged my brain
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
|
|
|
|
|