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Re: Another 440 cast vs forged crank debate [Re: The Shadow] #1997187
01/23/16 05:49 PM
01/23/16 05:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
I Live Here
Thumperdart  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
I know of a low 9-second n/a smallblock mopar w/a cast crank..........


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Another 440 cast vs forged crank debate [Re: Joey Johnson] #1997266
01/23/16 08:18 PM
01/23/16 08:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda Offline
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Charlotte, North Carolina
Can a cast crank be used in a 600 hp combo? Sure. Build anything you want. Would "I" take a chance on it living, for that small of an investment? No way!
I can't afford a billet crank, or an aftermarket block, but I would find a way to come up with $200.00 for a forged crank over cast. Machine work and balancing would be the same for either crank.


[image][/image]
Re: Another 440 cast vs forged crank debate [Re: The Shadow] #1997270
01/23/16 08:22 PM
01/23/16 08:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Originally Posted By The Stig Jr
Im not sure why hotrod is calling it steel?
Its a ductile cast iron afik but hey I could be wrong
I agree keep away for performance.


They all start out as steel... forged are pounded
to get a tighter density and to align the molecules..
the cast is just that.. cast and thats the end of it
(other than the machining)
wave

Re: Another 440 cast vs forged crank debate [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1997330
01/23/16 09:39 PM
01/23/16 09:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,175
Duloc
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The Shadow Offline
top fuel
The Shadow  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,175
Duloc
So they are not the same tsk


Cast Iron vs Cast Steel

Firstly, let us know what is the cast iron and cast steel.

Cast iron usually refers to gray iron, ductile iron and malleable iron, which is iron casting with carbon content upper than 2%.

Cast steel usually refers to normal carbon steel and alloy steel, or called steel casting with carbon content lower than 2%.

Therefore, no big difference considering from the chemical content and raw materials for cast iron vs cast steel. However, their physical properties have many differences.

The advantage and disadvantage of cast iron.

The grey cast iron has good casting properties, good vibration damping, good wear resistance, good machinability and low notch sensitivity. However, its tensile strength and elongation are very low, so only can produce some metal parts with low physical requirements, such as protective cover, cover, oil pan, hand wheels, frame, floor, hammer, small handle, base, frame, box, knife, bed, bearing seat, table, wheels, cover, pump, valve, pipe, flywheel, motor blocks etc. As for the higher grades, grey cast iron can withstand greater load and a certain degree of tightness or corrosion resistance of the more important castings such as cylinder, gear, base, flywheels, bed, cylinder block, cylinder liner, piston, gear box, brake wheel, coupling Plate, medium pressure valve, etc. refer to iron-foundry.com.

The ductile iron and malleable iron have high strength, ductility, heat-resistance and toughness, so a wider application, in some cases can replace the carbon steel. However, its production technology is high, production process is more complex, and production cost is higher than normal grey cast iron and cast steel, therefore, there are more casting defects for ductile iron. There are many fields that ductile iron are using for, such as Pressure pipes and fittings, Automotive applications, Agriculture, road and construction applications, General engineering applications.

The advantage and disadvantage of cast steel.

One of the advantages of cast steel is the design flexibility, the designer of the casting have the greatest freedom of design choices, especially the complex shape and hollow cross-section parts.

Cast steel has the metallurgy manufacturing flexibility and strongest variability, you can choose a different chemical composition and control, adapted to the various requirements of different projects. By different heat treatment choice in the larger context of the mechanical properties and performance, and good weldability and workability.

Cast steel is a kind of isotropic material and can be made into the overall structural strength steel castings, thereby improving the reliability of the project. Coupled with the design and weight the advantages of short delivery time, price and economy has a competitive advantage.

The weight range of steel castings is larger. Little weight can be only a few dozen grams of molten mold precision castings, and the weight of large steel castings up to several tons, dozens of tons or hundreds of tons.

Steel castings can be used for a variety of working conditions, and its mechanical properties superior to any other casting alloys, and a variety of high-alloy steel for special purposes. To withstand high tensile stress or dynamic load of components, it is important pressure vessel castings in low or high temperature by the large and important part load key parts, in principle, should give priority to steel castings.

However, the cast steel has comparatively bad shake-suction, wear resistance, mobility and the casting performance are compared bad with cast iron, moreover, the costs are higher than normal cast iron.

Last edited by The Stig Jr; 01/23/16 09:42 PM.
Re: Another 440 cast vs forged crank debate [Re: The Shadow] #1997386
01/23/16 10:50 PM
01/23/16 10:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI

Crankshaft Materials



Crankshafts materials should be readily shaped, machined and heat-treated, and have adequate strength, toughness, hardness, and high fatigue strength. The crankshaft are manufactured from steel either by forging or casting. The main bearing and connecting rod bearing liners are made of babbitt, a tin and lead alloy. Forged crankshafts are stronger than the cast crankshafts, but are more expensive. Forged crankshafts are made from SAE 1045 or similar type steel. Forging makes a very dense, tough shaft with a grain running parallel to the principal stress direction. Crankshafts are cast in steel, modular iron or malleable iron. The major advantage of the casting process is that crankshaft material and machining costs are reduced because the crankshaft may be made close to the required shape and size including counterweights. Cast crankshafts can handle loads from all directions as the metal grain structure is uniform and random throughout. Counterweights on cast crankshafts are slightly larger than counterweights on a forged crankshafts because the cast metal is less dense and therefore somewhat lighter.

Generally automobile crankshafts were forged in past to have all the desirable properties. However, with the evolution of the nodular cast irons and improvements in foundry techniques, cast crankshafts are now preferred for moderate loads. Only for heavy duty applications forged shafts are favoured. The selection of crankshaft materials and heat treatments for various applications are as follows.
wave

Re: Another 440 cast vs forged crank debate [Re: Joey Johnson] #1997474
01/24/16 12:56 AM
01/24/16 12:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,929
Akron, Ohio
ProSport Offline
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Akron, Ohio
Spend the small amount of extra money and get a forged crank.


1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
Re: Another 440 cast vs forged crank debate [Re: Joey Johnson] #1997518
01/24/16 02:47 AM
01/24/16 02:47 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,640
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
Still wishing...
Twostick  Offline
Still wishing...

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,640
Downtown Roebuck Ont
A buddy of mine used to race FE Fords in the 70's. He started using cast cranks because they were lighter and figured that was an advantage. He used to break forged FE cranks. According to him he never broke a cast one.

I saw a quote from Joe Sherman in Hotrod many years ago. At the time he was building some pretty stout SB 400's. He said that forged cranks were for people that couldn't sleep at night.

Kevin

Re: Another 440 cast vs forged crank debate [Re: Twostick] #1997611
01/24/16 11:49 AM
01/24/16 11:49 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Originally Posted By Twostick
A buddy of mine used to race FE Fords in the 70's. He started using cast cranks because they were lighter and figured that was an advantage. He used to break forged FE cranks. According to him he never broke a cast one.

I saw a quote from Joe Sherman in Hotrod many years ago. At the time he was building some pretty stout SB 400's. He said that forged cranks were for people that couldn't sleep at night.

Kevin


My buddy races his 52 ford PU with w 460 BBF..
he sprays it also... the journals on that crank
are huge.... its a cast one... and HEAVY
wave

Re: Another 440 cast vs forged crank debate [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1997622
01/24/16 12:05 PM
01/24/16 12:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,833
fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
Itch Nutz
cudaman1969  Offline
Itch Nutz
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,833
fredericksburg,va
Originally Posted By MR_P_BODY
Originally Posted By Twostick
A buddy of mine used to race FE Fords in the 70's. He started using cast cranks because they were lighter and figured that was an advantage. He used to break forged FE cranks. According to him he never broke a cast one.

I saw a quote from Joe Sherman in Hotrod many years ago. At the time he was building some pretty stout SB 400's. He said that forged cranks were for people that couldn't sleep at night.

Kevin


My buddy races his 52 ford PU with w 460 BBF..
he sprays it also... the journals on that crank
are huge.... its a cast one... and HEAVY
wave

And when they come apart they Come apart! The 460 blew and the crank "parts" where in the pan, snout and flex plate flange where the biggest pieces with the rods hanging onto there parts, never saw anything like that before. But it was making about 700 hp and had 400 or more passes.

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