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Re: Trick Flow heads [Re: ozymaxwedge] #1986729
01/09/16 01:53 AM
01/09/16 01:53 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 365
Indiana
Gabby63 Offline
enthusiast
Gabby63  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 365
Indiana
Nice car , any more info you care to share ? More photos . Thanks Gary

Re: Trick Flow heads [Re: fast68plymouth] #1987743
01/10/16 04:59 PM
01/10/16 04:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 121
Cleburne,Texas
scrapmetal Offline
member
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Posts: 121
Cleburne,Texas
Lot of nice info on here.Thanks for sharing.I'm mocking mine up.I just want a street able combo.I have a 470 with 6.535 rods .610 lift, 248/254 @.050 solid roller with Mrl lifters.Going to try a RPM intake and a Victor and M1.Going to run E85 950cfm.It gets hot here in Texas and am having problems when it gets in the upper 90's with my 440 cid!






Last edited by scrapmetal; 01/10/16 04:59 PM.
Re: Trick Flow heads [Re: BradH] #1989321
01/12/16 03:27 PM
01/12/16 03:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,250
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
I Win
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Posts: 31,250
Oregon
Originally Posted By BradH
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single time where I used those fel-pro paper gaskets and they properly lined up with all the ports on any heads. Generally, when you line up one pair of ports, the ones at the other end of the head are too far from the first pair.

Yep, the Fel-Pros are spaced too wide, the Indy SR gaskets are spot-on, and the Indy MW gaskets are too narrow.

For some odd reason, when Hughes CNC'd my "standard port" Victors, it looks like they spaced the ports approx. the same as Indy does their MW gaskets, so I have to cut "good" standard-port gaskets to fit that narrower port spacing. Hughes' own house-brand gaskets don't fit, either.

You'd think something this basic wouldn't be a freakin' problem, given everything else that goes into designing a head or a CNC program. This type of inconsistency plays He11 w/ intake manifold port alignment, too. realcrazy


I took the time to pull out the reverse engineering tool box and measure the location of the TF ports. Turns out that TF doesn't put the ports in a symmetrical location in regards to the bolt holes. The intake gasket as far as I can measure is symmetrical with respect to the bolt holes. One pair of ports on the TF head are shifted over by about 0.032 when compared to the other pair of ports. It is just enough that the gasket doesn't line up correctly.

Re: Trick Flow heads [Re: AndyF] #1989374
01/12/16 04:55 PM
01/12/16 04:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,839
Wichita
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GY3 Online content
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,839
Wichita
Originally Posted By AndyF
Originally Posted By BradH
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single time where I used those fel-pro paper gaskets and they properly lined up with all the ports on any heads. Generally, when you line up one pair of ports, the ones at the other end of the head are too far from the first pair.

Yep, the Fel-Pros are spaced too wide, the Indy SR gaskets are spot-on, and the Indy MW gaskets are too narrow.

For some odd reason, when Hughes CNC'd my "standard port" Victors, it looks like they spaced the ports approx. the same as Indy does their MW gaskets, so I have to cut "good" standard-port gaskets to fit that narrower port spacing. Hughes' own house-brand gaskets don't fit, either.

You'd think something this basic wouldn't be a freakin' problem, given everything else that goes into designing a head or a CNC program. This type of inconsistency plays He11 w/ intake manifold port alignment, too. realcrazy


I took the time to pull out the reverse engineering tool box and measure the location of the TF ports. Turns out that TF doesn't put the ports in a symmetrical location in regards to the bolt holes. The intake gasket as far as I can measure is symmetrical with respect to the bolt holes. One pair of ports on the TF head are shifted over by about 0.032 when compared to the other pair of ports. It is just enough that the gasket doesn't line up correctly.


I would like to either borrow or find the source for said "reverse engineering toolbox". scope

Re: Trick Flow heads [Re: GY3] #1991259
01/15/16 01:23 PM
01/15/16 01:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 126
Oregon
J
Jamie McGrath Offline
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Posts: 126
Oregon
I was just thinking? how much power would be made if the compression was dropped too say 8:1 and a procharger was added keeping the boost @ or near 10-15lbs?

Re: Trick Flow heads [Re: fast68plymouth] #1991274
01/15/16 02:05 PM
01/15/16 02:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,942
Metro Detroit
OUTLAWD Offline
top fuel
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Posts: 1,942
Metro Detroit
enough to break a stock block?


Faster, Faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...

71 Swinger - slowly collecting dust/parts
66 Belv. II - just a streetcar
88 Mustang - turbo LS beater
Re: Trick Flow heads [Re: OUTLAWD] #1991275
01/15/16 02:08 PM
01/15/16 02:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,238
North Central, Indiana
Roughbird72 Offline
pro stock
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Posts: 1,238
North Central, Indiana
Originally Posted By OUTLAWD
enough to break a stock block?


iagree


72 Plymouth Roadrunner 11.08@123.25
Re: Trick Flow heads [Re: Roughbird72] #1991323
01/15/16 03:16 PM
01/15/16 03:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 126
Oregon
J
Jamie McGrath Offline
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Jamie McGrath  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 126
Oregon
Even with a girdle? Those little SB chebbys and fords seem too be holding up...

Re: Trick Flow heads [Re: fast68plymouth] #1991350
01/15/16 03:43 PM
01/15/16 03:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,942
Metro Detroit
OUTLAWD Offline
top fuel
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Posts: 1,942
Metro Detroit
Andy's example is pushing close to 700 NA...boosted combinations are generally slightly more forgiving than NA, but power potential increases ALOT...

Stock blocks are safe to 700 or so, see the most recent girdle thread:

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbt...tml#Post1990062

The general consensus is if you think you need a girdle, you might as well step up to an aftermarket block.


Faster, Faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...

71 Swinger - slowly collecting dust/parts
66 Belv. II - just a streetcar
88 Mustang - turbo LS beater
Re: Trick Flow heads [Re: Jamie McGrath] #1991363
01/15/16 04:03 PM
01/15/16 04:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,183
CT
GTX MATT Offline
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CT
Originally Posted By Jamie McGrath
Even with a girdle? Those little SB chebbys and fords seem too be holding up...


This is what I never understand, ask a MoPar guy on here how much a stock block can handle and they will tell you 600 HP. Ask a Chevy guy and they will tell you small and big blocks can take anywhere from 800-1000 HP. I have trouble believing that, and its not a "I'm a MoPar guy so I think they're better" thing. Look at both blocks and tell me which appears stronger, besides the fact that the MoPar stuff has geometry and slower piston on its side. I was also under the impression that Chrysler blocks were cast of a better content iron, but I'm not really sure. Don't get me wrong, I believe the Chevy stuff is pretty durable, much more so than the BOP stuff, and its obvious when you look at the stuff and hold it in your hands. But i'd really just like to get a real, unbiased answer and explanation as to why.

And the Ford stuff don't even get me started, 10 head bolts?!

Last edited by GTX MATT; 01/15/16 04:05 PM.

Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: Trick Flow heads [Re: fast68plymouth] #1991484
01/15/16 07:31 PM
01/15/16 07:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3
Oregon
H
hptuner Offline
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3
Oregon
I am wondering has anyone installed them and found the Quirks , like how much longer the pushrods needs to be than stock , will stock head bolt lengths work, those are the questions that I have of course lengths need to checked but they must know approx. how much longer the pushrods should be for a starting point. I will getting my pair ordered on my next trip to the machine shop. I have been waiting for these for a while ( like most of you) but do we really need to buy Trick flo bolts if we have new ARP's on the shelf ? Im so exited about getting them on I want it to be easy LOL .

Re: Trick Flow heads [Re: hptuner] #1991507
01/15/16 08:05 PM
01/15/16 08:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,839
Wichita
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Wichita
Originally Posted By hptuner
I am wondering has anyone installed them and found the Quirks , like how much longer the pushrods needs to be than stock , will stock head bolt lengths work, those are the questions that I have of course lengths need to checked but they must know approx. how much longer the pushrods should be for a starting point. I will getting my pair ordered on my next trip to the machine shop. I have been waiting for these for a while ( like most of you) but do we really need to buy Trick flo bolts if we have new ARP's on the shelf ? Im so exited about getting them on I want it to be easy LOL .


The pushrod length will vary depending on the rockers, milling on the block, cam and lifter choice etc.

My pushrods varied by .75" just going from solid, flat tappet to hydraulic roller with my Stealths.

I use a Trickflow adjustable "mockup" rod to get precise length pushrods and order them from Manton.

Re: Trick Flow heads [Re: hptuner] #1991553
01/15/16 09:19 PM
01/15/16 09:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,250
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,250
Oregon
Originally Posted By hptuner
I am wondering has anyone installed them and found the Quirks , like how much longer the pushrods needs to be than stock , will stock head bolt lengths work, those are the questions that I have of course lengths need to checked but they must know approx. how much longer the pushrods should be for a starting point. I will getting my pair ordered on my next trip to the machine shop. I have been waiting for these for a while ( like most of you) but do we really need to buy Trick flo bolts if we have new ARP's on the shelf ? Im so exited about getting them on I want it to be easy LOL .


Yes that has all been sorted out and answered in this thread. You need longer pushrods, the center row of head bolts has to be longer and you need rocker arm studs that are all the same length.

Re: Trick Flow heads [Re: GTX MATT] #1991659
01/15/16 11:39 PM
01/15/16 11:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 126
Oregon
J
Jamie McGrath Offline
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 126
Oregon
Originally Posted By GTX MATT
Originally Posted By Jamie McGrath
Even with a girdle? Those little SB chebbys and fords seem too be holding up...


This is what I never understand, ask a MoPar guy on here how much a stock block can handle and they will tell you 600 HP. Ask a Chevy guy and they will tell you small and big blocks can take anywhere from 800-1000 HP. I have trouble believing that, and its not a "I'm a MoPar guy so I think they're better" thing. Look at both blocks and tell me which appears stronger, besides the fact that the MoPar stuff has geometry and slower piston on its side. I was also under the impression that Chrysler blocks were cast of a better content iron, but I'm not really sure. Don't get me wrong, I believe the Chevy stuff is pretty durable, much more so than the BOP stuff, and its obvious when you look at the stuff and hold it in your hands. But i'd really just like to get a real, unbiased answer and explanation as to why.

And the Ford stuff don't even get me started, 10 head bolts?!


Yea, I'm in the same quandary..... I thought that centrifugal blowers ramped up the boost as the rpms climbed much like a turbo so they were softer on the bottom end parts? What am I missing? The boost doesn't just slam in like a nitrous system does.

Re: Trick Flow heads [Re: Jamie McGrath] #1991740
01/16/16 01:20 AM
01/16/16 01:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,361
Wild West
M_D Offline
pro stock
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,361
Wild West
Originally Posted By Jamie McGrath
Originally Posted By GTX MATT
Originally Posted By Jamie McGrath
Even with a girdle? Those little SB chebbys and fords seem too be holding up...


This is what I never understand, ask a MoPar guy on here how much a stock block can handle and they will tell you 600 HP. Ask a Chevy guy and they will tell you small and big blocks can take anywhere from 800-1000 HP. I have trouble believing that, and its not a "I'm a MoPar guy so I think they're better" thing. Look at both blocks and tell me which appears stronger, besides the fact that the MoPar stuff has geometry and slower piston on its side. I was also under the impression that Chrysler blocks were cast of a better content iron, but I'm not really sure. Don't get me wrong, I believe the Chevy stuff is pretty durable, much more so than the BOP stuff, and its obvious when you look at the stuff and hold it in your hands. But i'd really just like to get a real, unbiased answer and explanation as to why.

And the Ford stuff don't even get me started, 10 head bolts?!


Yea, I'm in the same quandary..... I thought that centrifugal blowers ramped up the boost as the rpms climbed much like a turbo so they were softer on the bottom end parts? What am I missing? The boost doesn't just slam in like a nitrous system does.


The cross-bolted production Hemi and especially the aftermarket big Mopar blocks are substantially better than the standard 2 bolt block. In my opinion the Chevy style 4 bolt main block styles are even better from an engineering standpoint. A stud girdle simply doesn’t upgrade a block to the equivalent of a cross-bolted or 4 main block.

While abrupt “hammering” type loads are harder on parts, there is point where even a “smoother” load is too much. There just isn’t enough material or fasteners in the bottom of a stock 2 bolt Mopar block once the power reaches a certain point.

If I could go back in time and there were one thing I could change on a stock big block Mopar it would be the main cap arrangement and the associated weakness. If there were 2 things I would spread the bores.



Re: Trick Flow heads [Re: M_D] #1991998
01/16/16 02:11 PM
01/16/16 02:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366 Offline
I Live Here
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Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
Well after a month and a half wait my heads showed up this morning, these things are works of art, now it's time to get the block off to the machine shop. boogie


Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
Re: Trick Flow heads [Re: GTX MATT] #1992086
01/16/16 04:56 PM
01/16/16 04:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,877
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Posts: 43,877
Bend,OR USA
Originally Posted By GTX MATT
Originally Posted By Jamie McGrath
Even with a girdle? Those little SB chebbys and fords seem too be holding up...


This is what I never understand, ask a MoPar guy on here how much a stock block can handle and they will tell you 600 HP.

The stock 440 blocks can and do have main web cracking problems above 600 HP, probally dependent on the tuner and driver work
The regular 1972 and later thicker main web 400 blocks can handle a bunch more than that. The very rare 400 "230" casting # winter blocks with the extra thick main webbing can handle a bunch more than the later 400 block do shruggy
A new 4 main bolt race block for seruios builds is the best choice up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Trick Flow heads [Re: Cab_Burge] #1992099
01/16/16 05:22 PM
01/16/16 05:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Now someone needs to start casting up blocks.. I could
use a 340 based SB like the R-blocks.. all sorts of
heads out there and not a block to be had
wave

Re: Trick Flow heads [Re: AndyF] #1992989
01/17/16 09:35 PM
01/17/16 09:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,250
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
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A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,250
Oregon
Installed cam #3 today. This cam is a custom grind from Dwayne using Comp HXL and HXX lobes. 264/268 duration with .446/.445 lobe lift. Should have it on the dyno by the end of the week and we'll see what she does.

Also have a modified carb coming from Mark W. I sent him my Holley 950 to have annular boosters installed. We're thinking that the annular boosters will work better with the low RVP unleaded gas and cold temps. So I'll compare that carb to the 850 and 1050 carbs that I've been testing with.

Re: Trick Flow heads [Re: fast68plymouth] #1994274
01/19/16 05:49 PM
01/19/16 05:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 121
Cleburne,Texas
scrapmetal Offline
member
scrapmetal  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 121
Cleburne,Texas
Im sending back the rocker arms I have and looking for some other ones.This is my first Mopar and its turning into a pain. I was looking at some Hugues 15203.I'm building a mild roller 470 and don't wanna spend 1200.

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