Re: Cylander wall thickness "update"
[Re: dartman366]
#1979248
12/30/15 12:35 PM
12/30/15 12:35 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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You shouldnt have ANY issues with those blocks.. they are THICK walls... in my SB stuff I havent ever seen a production block that thick... just my race blocks good luck with your build
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Re: Cylander wall thickness "update"
[Re: dartman366]
#1979483
12/30/15 06:11 PM
12/30/15 06:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,352 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,352
Bend,OR USA
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I said somthing to him about doing a half fill and he promptly told me to not waste my time and money and that blocks like that don't need it besides he is not a proponant of using filler because of thermal issues in the cylander. I don't use block filler for that exact reason The heat zone differences above and below the block filler ends up making the cylinder walls different internal diminsions above and below the filler, basically a small step in them
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Cylander wall thickness "update"
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1979565
12/30/15 08:07 PM
12/30/15 08:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
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I said somthing to him about doing a half fill and he promptly told me to not waste my time and money and that blocks like that don't need it besides he is not a proponant of using filler because of thermal issues in the cylander. I don't use block filler for that exact reason The heat zone differences above and below the block filler ends up making the cylinder walls different internal diminsions above and below the filler, basically a small step in them that must be why he explained about blocks that had a 1/2 fill showed a increased amount of skirt scuffing as opposed to ones that dont, and it all makes sense to me because of the difference in thermal expansion in those two areas.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: Cylander wall thickness "update"
[Re: dartman366]
#1979643
12/30/15 09:28 PM
12/30/15 09:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506 Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Sorry, but ain't buyin all that. Based on water displacement, I run a 3/4 fill block. Never seen a "line of demarcation" on the cylinder walls. Never had any piston scuffing issues. With the temps we usually run ( under 200 degrees ) don't think there is a lot of thermal expansion / contraction to worry about. If there is any, it would all be on the expansion side, so don't see it scuffing piston walls. On wall thickness, I have run small block motors all out of E58 coded cars. Supposed to be "hand picked blocks", what ever that means. Had two sonic tested. All at .2 or thicker walls ( before boring ). Don't know if those two items are related, but just eyeballing lifter bore holes and castings in the lifter bore areas, looks like minimal core shift on these blocks.
Fastest 300
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Re: Cylander wall thickness "update"
[Re: Crizila]
#1979706
12/30/15 10:55 PM
12/30/15 10:55 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,204 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,204
PA.
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Cement those blocks up then complain about heavy azz cars. LOL. Concrete's for swim-in pools.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Cylander wall thickness "update"
[Re: dartman366]
#1980100
12/31/15 01:27 PM
12/31/15 01:27 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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As far as questioning the test,it seems to be a very comprehensive test using minimally 12 checks per cylinder.We do 16 checks if we find thin areas. Diffrent types of material have different inherent sound velosities,ie:steel velosity aprox.5918m/s and aluminium is 6350m/s.If the guage is not set correctly the measurements will be erroneous by a certain percentage. There are 3 ways to calibrate a sonic meter. 1- Calibrate to a known thicknes/material 2-Calibrate to a known velosity 3- A 2 point calibration. We generally use 1- calabration to the known thicknes, sincethe advent of added alloys and strengthen materials to the parent metal.ie: added nickel in cast iron.Cast iron having a sound velosity m/s of 4572 and nickel having a sound velosity of m/s 5639. Depending on the amount of nickel interduced into the cast iron will negate using 2-calibration to a known velosity(chart value).The best way to measure a block is to find an area that can be measuered(known thickness)your probe should read the same value. Other considerations are choosing the correct transducer probe size and diameter as well as a good copulant for seal.Keep in mind test should be done at nominal room tempertures.
Last edited by B G Racing; 12/31/15 02:07 PM.
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Re: Cylander wall thickness "update"
[Re: wyoming]
#1980637
12/31/15 09:36 PM
12/31/15 09:36 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,352 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,352
Bend,OR USA
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Id kinda agree with Chris, Ive checked quite a few blocks and haven't been that lucky with wall thickness, on my last engine build I didn't find one with that good of numbers out of 10 blocks checked, makes me wonder if my checker is bad? I try to alwyas calibrate my sonic tester to a known thickness, not the posted velocity for the metal being tested I'll take a dremel tool or small hand held air powered high speed rotary grinder with a carbide bit to smooth out around the oil pan rail on the BB in the back near the bellhousing mounting starter areas or in the front near the timing cover ribs to get a smooth, flat surface I measure it with a set of dial calipers and get the meter reading within .005 or less on the meter
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Cylander wall thickness "update"
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1980651
12/31/15 09:50 PM
12/31/15 09:50 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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So far for me I am using the ears for the engine mounts.. I touch them up with a 4" disc on my die grinder for a flat surface.. this would be my known thickness point to test... but I'm still playing with my new tester... havent played much lately being I have stuff thats not working on my junker... soon I will get back to testing blocks since I have a few I want to look at for up coming jobs... but so far I havent ever seen some of the numbers posted
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Re: Cylander wall thickness
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1980661
12/31/15 10:09 PM
12/31/15 10:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 526 NC
barracuda man
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 526
NC
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We generally consider anything above .180 on the thrust sides at finish bore a good block... What is your minimum acceptable thickness for a NON-thrust measurement? I can say that every cyl that has cracked on my stuff has been on the NON thrust side.. every one.. they varied from .125 to .160.. that was 5 cyls on multiple blocks(all 340 blocks at 4.070 bores) Mr p just curious as to what year 340 blocks did this.I have 2 340 blocks with 7/70 build dates.
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Re: Cylander wall thickness "update"
[Re: Chris'sBarracuda]
#1980935
01/01/16 07:36 AM
01/01/16 07:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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had two blocks one was a 1975 the other is a 1976 both came in with the numbers solidly in the .310-.320 range had a spot here and there that was in the mid 200 range worse being 245, and a couple around .260-.280,,95% are .300 or better. I think I would be questioning the measuring equipment. Yes, those numbers are to good to be true. But, they do indicate decent cylinder thickness. Its all about the calibration as far as true accuracy.
Last edited by Sport440; 01/01/16 07:38 AM.
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