Opinions on 360?
#1977014
12/27/15 11:11 AM
12/27/15 11:11 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 523 Right here
HP2
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Planning to do some upgrades on my 70 `cuda vert, I will keep the 904 tranny with the 2,200 rpm converter and will stay with the 3.23 SG. Brand new tti 3" H-pipe exhaust is already installed, did that before I made decisions about the power plant. I don't know very much about the 360 yet. It takes no oil, has good compression and runs strong. Power comes in strong at around 3,500 rpm's and then it wants to rev to the moon. A little screamer. Recent owner said it was a "crate engine", but he couldn't confirm it. I have found out that block is casted 1971. It is externally balanced. Before I take it apart I would like to hear your opinions. Since I live in Sweden I need to plan my shopping! I want an engine working with the converter and 3.23 ratio. I'm looking for a power band suited for the rpm range the engine will be driven in. Rarely over 4,000 and mostly between 1-3,000. Plain and simple responsive and economic motor. You might think I'm odd wanting to build a boring engine, but I have had many cars with hot engines making lots of power, and as we all know high revving engines like that requires high stall converters, high flowing induction and exhaust, steep gears and so on. Honestly, most of the time they are not very fun though. Not very reliable either. But thirsty. I still have my Charger if my mood turns to racing mode I think this 360 still could be able to smoke the 275's. Do you? Hopefully I will be able to use the same crank, rods, pistons and heads. Of course more cubic would take it longer, but I'm on a budget. I'm thinking a good aluminum dual plane with long runners like Edelbrock RPM or Weiand Action Plus and a Thermoquad on top. Camshaft selection will of course be very critical and here I need advice. A good bunch of lift, steep lobes but not much duration? I will ditch the headers since they are crap. Maybe I could go with cast iron manifolds since I don't need a lot of flow? If my heads needs work it might be a better idea to find something else.
70 W100 Power Wagon. 318 4-spd 70 Sport Fury 440 2dr HT 71 Duster 340 71 Charger Super Bee - 383/727 72 Charger "Sabotage" - 440/727 - Street/Strip 78 Warlock in beautiful patina
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Re: Opinions on 360?
[Re: HP2]
#1977073
12/27/15 01:38 PM
12/27/15 01:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
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with the 2,200 rpm converter and will stay with the 3.23 SG. Before I take it apart I would like to hear your opinions.n
I want an engine working with the converter and 3.23 ratio. Rarely over 4,000 and mostly between 1-3,000. t I have had many cars with hot engines making lots of power, and as we all know high revving engines like that requires high stall converters, high flowing induction and exhaust, steep gears and so on. Honestly, most of the time they are not very fun though.
Hopefully I will be able to use the same crank, rods, pistons and heads. Of course more cubic would take it longer, but I'm on a budget. I'm thinking a good aluminum dual plane with long runners like Edelbrock RPM or Weiand Action Plus and a Thermoquad on top. Maybe I could go with cast iron manifolds since I don't need a lot of flow? If my heads needs work it might be a better idea to find something else. Stroke it! You might consider the 4" crank & they're on sale for several hundred dollars. & you would need the stroker pistons. For iron ex manifolds the '92/early 93 magnum ones with the 2&5/16" outlets are VG & run maybe $100 & the absolute best is the DR one from that pair and a 68-70 340 HP pass side iron manifold & they run 3-5 bills a set & that would be splitting up a set so both would need to be purchased The VERY best would be (2) pass 340 HP manis & reverse the one for the dr side. the outlet would point forward but it'd be doable but it would be pricey finding 2 of em seperately. there's headers & pro & con on them. You need low end torque & for that you need cubes. Others will chime in with recommendations for you. PS mag heads would be the best way to do
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Opinions on 360?
[Re: HP2]
#1977074
12/27/15 01:38 PM
12/27/15 01:38 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,861 MI, usa
dvw
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You need to know what compression ratio you have. factory short blocks are very low high 7.7-8-1. My Challenger runs a 3.55 gear,9-1, 224@.050" hyd roller, LD340, 650 Holley, TTI headers. Runs on 86 octane. Has good low end power, been 12.70@107 in street trim. Doug
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Re: Opinions on 360?
[Re: HP2]
#1977075
12/27/15 01:39 PM
12/27/15 01:39 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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master
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Aurora, Colorado
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All the 360's were external balanced. 1971 was the first year for the 360 and is supposed to be a stronger block than later years, but not an issue for a mild motor. The B&M flexplate for the 360 (balanced with the engine) will allow you to connect up any normal balanced torque converter. I built a mild "RV" type 360 for my truck, 9.5:1 compression and an older Hughes Engines cam, around 215/220 duration @ 0.050", and a bit over 0.500" lift using crane gold 1.6:1 rocker arms. Stock "J" heads with 2.02"/1.6" valves and alot of bowl porting and some porting of the runners. Gasket matched to a standard Edelbrock performer intake and 670 Holley Avenger carb. Runs real good, but if I was to do it over I would just use some better heads like the Hughes Iron Ram heads, they flow better and have better combustion chamber design.
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Re: Opinions on 360?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1977218
12/27/15 04:41 PM
12/27/15 04:41 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 523 Right here
HP2
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Hopefully I will be able to use the same crank, rods, pistons and heads. Of course more cubic would take it longer, but I'm on a budget. I'm thinking a good aluminum dual plane with long runners like Edelbrock RPM or Weiand Action Plus and a Thermoquad on top. Maybe I could go with cast iron manifolds since I don't need a lot of flow? If my heads needs work it might be a better idea to find something else. Stroke it! You might consider the 4" crank & they're on sale for several hundred dollars. & you would need the stroker pistons. For iron ex manifolds the '92/early 93 magnum ones with the 2&5/16" outlets are VG & run maybe $100 & the absolute best is the DR one from that pair and a 68-70 340 HP pass side iron manifold & they run 3-5 bills a set & that would be splitting up a set so both would need to be purchased The VERY best would be (2) pass 340 HP manis & reverse the one for the dr side. the outlet would point forward but it'd be doable but it would be pricey finding 2 of em seperately. there's headers & pro & con on them. You need low end torque & for that you need cubes. Others will chime in with recommendations for you. PS mag heads would be the best way to do Stroking is unfortunately not an option, I don't have the funds so this will have to be a "cheap" build. So unless I don't have to bore it I will keep the rotating assembly. I will need lots of power down low so more cubes would be a great help, but 360 cu in is not really a small engine after all. I think it will be doable! I will look for the ex manifolds you mentioned, thanks
70 W100 Power Wagon. 318 4-spd 70 Sport Fury 440 2dr HT 71 Duster 340 71 Charger Super Bee - 383/727 72 Charger "Sabotage" - 440/727 - Street/Strip 78 Warlock in beautiful patina
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Re: Opinions on 360?
[Re: gch]
#1977222
12/27/15 04:46 PM
12/27/15 04:46 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 523 Right here
HP2
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You need to find out what you have in this motor before you start buying parts.
I can still determine what carb, intake, cam and misc I will need without opening it. I believe I have a very fresh 360 with very little miles on it. If I'm wrong I will have to find a fresh shortblock, but that's not very difficult.
70 W100 Power Wagon. 318 4-spd 70 Sport Fury 440 2dr HT 71 Duster 340 71 Charger Super Bee - 383/727 72 Charger "Sabotage" - 440/727 - Street/Strip 78 Warlock in beautiful patina
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Re: Opinions on 360?
[Re: dvw]
#1977226
12/27/15 04:50 PM
12/27/15 04:50 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 523 Right here
HP2
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I have access to a bunch of cheap heads. If I'm lucky I will be able to score a pair aluminum heads. I will try to end up close to 9.5:1 with iron heads, 10.5:1 with aluminum.
70 W100 Power Wagon. 318 4-spd 70 Sport Fury 440 2dr HT 71 Duster 340 71 Charger Super Bee - 383/727 72 Charger "Sabotage" - 440/727 - Street/Strip 78 Warlock in beautiful patina
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Re: Opinions on 360?
[Re: HP2]
#1977722
12/28/15 04:03 AM
12/28/15 04:03 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Lincoln Nebraska
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I can still determine what carb, intake, cam and misc I will need without opening it. I believe I have a very fresh 360 with very little miles on it. If I'm wrong I will have to find a fresh shortblock, but that's not very difficult. You have a fresh eng. I would max the things you mentioned and related systems. A good dual plane intake tho the iron OE 360 4bbl one is actually a killer piece but heavy iron. Not sure what carb to recommend. #1 would be the right cam choice. then spot on dial in the ign system. initial/total to 35/springs/then the can in order. I would find out if you have open or closed chambered heads & alum heads would be lighter of course & likely closed chambers which you (likely) need but they are pricey & iirc there was a discussion on this here recently & no bennie just from the alloy was the concensus (iirc) so not sure if they would be worth it to you (cost vs bennie).
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Opinions on 360?
[Re: HP2]
#1977835
12/28/15 01:03 PM
12/28/15 01:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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Bitopia
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Your goals are limited budget, and stroker is out, smoke the 275's, low rpm, moderate fuel use, other real race toys in waiting, 2200 904 converter, e body, currently good running "crate"? 360 motor, 3.23 RA, if I read it right, you are already there? One thing stands out to me, ditch the choice of OEM exhaust manifolds for real headers, weight, efficiency, etc are worth it. I also don't think the cam choice in this application is that critical, more ball park choice, as I bet the goals will upgrade in the future, quickly obsoleting any critical cam choice.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Opinions on 360?
[Re: dezduster]
#1988295
01/11/16 09:54 AM
01/11/16 09:54 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 523 Right here
HP2
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Now I need your op on intakes and more. I have scored three different TQ's, two untouched in good condition and one that I supposed to be gone through and modified for a hot Chevy 327 but never used. Both dusty and dirty from sitting on a shelf in a garage for years. I hope I can put at least one good together. What would the best intake be for idle to, lets say, 3,500 rpm?
I will have a custom cam made with steep lobes, pretty high lift, short duration and an intake that closes early to build pressure. I'm interested in your op in this area as well.
As said before I will adjust static compression by milling heads or/and head gaskets choice so I get as high dynamic compression as I think it can handle with the cam.
I now have the numbers on the heads, they are 3418915 so they can be the originals to this engine (1971 360") if I understand correctly. Then the valves are 1.88/1.60 which should be good for a torque build.
Since the engine will produce all its power down low some bad flowing cast exhaust manifolds even could help the engine by building back pressure? Teach me!
70 W100 Power Wagon. 318 4-spd 70 Sport Fury 440 2dr HT 71 Duster 340 71 Charger Super Bee - 383/727 72 Charger "Sabotage" - 440/727 - Street/Strip 78 Warlock in beautiful patina
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Re: Opinions on 360?
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1988402
01/11/16 01:35 PM
01/11/16 01:35 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 523 Right here
HP2
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Backpressure is not good. I'm not going to get into a whole essay on exhaust velocity and scavenging, but in your case, HP manifolds are better than log manifolds and headers are a step better yet.
Until you pull a cylinder head off and measure how far down in the hole your pistons are, as well as any dish or valve reliefs, we are guessing at your compression ratio, which isn't a good way to pick a cam. Okay, I will look around for something better than the truck manifolds I have then Unfortunately, I don't have room to take the motor out until I have finished other projects. I will not order the cam until I get the heads off like you say, I need to do all the measurements before, but I need to find an intake before that.
70 W100 Power Wagon. 318 4-spd 70 Sport Fury 440 2dr HT 71 Duster 340 71 Charger Super Bee - 383/727 72 Charger "Sabotage" - 440/727 - Street/Strip 78 Warlock in beautiful patina
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Re: Opinions on 360?
[Re: HP2]
#1988503
01/11/16 03:32 PM
01/11/16 03:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699 Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit
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If you toss a low gear set in the 904 it will make the 3.23's much happier. The factory ones are plentiful and cheap.
Free advice and worth every penny... Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
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