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Re: should this make 600 hp [Re: Blucuda413] #1975037
12/23/15 08:54 AM
12/23/15 08:54 AM
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Charlotte, NC
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LSP Offline
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Originally Posted By Blucuda413
This discussion begs the question, how accurate are the published formulas based on ET, MPH and weight. I've always accepted the results as valid, but are they??


The published hp per cfm apply to the guy that published them, but might not apply elsewhere depending on details of the rest of the engine combination. I'll surely catch some flak, but 241 cfm @ 28" on SF-1020 made 625hp on a SF-901. Was with a 12.5-1, hyd.roller cam, 360ci, 10.20 @ 131 in a 3300 lb. car.

I keep my own notes on builds, and have my own expectations based on the entire combination.

Re: should this make 600 hp [Re: sam64] #1975042
12/23/15 10:01 AM
12/23/15 10:01 AM
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Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
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Although the engine combo sounds light for that amount of power, you can't argue with actual et/mph. As long as the numbers are accurate.


[image][/image]
Re: should this make 600 hp [Re: sam64] #1975093
12/23/15 01:07 PM
12/23/15 01:07 PM
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Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
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Originally Posted By sam64
thanks for the feed back guys,i will put in the car and see what I get.

Is this the same car w/ the 10.86 at 123 ET & MPH in the signature? What's it weigh, and under what conditions did it run that?

Re: should this make 600 hp [Re: Blucuda413] #1975096
12/23/15 01:14 PM
12/23/15 01:14 PM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Originally Posted By Blucuda413
This discussion begs the question, how accurate are the published formulas based on ET, MPH and weight. I've always accepted the results as valid, but are they??

Even those seem subject to confusion (e.g. "flywheel hp" vs "rear wheel hp"), so they require qualifiers when used.

Unless the dyno results come from the one I've used the last couple of times (Porter Racing Heads'), I believe only what I can calculate from the MPH on an ET slip, at a measured as-run weight, under known atmospheric conditions that can be standardized for comparison. Everything else still throws in unknowns / variables that can skew the results.

Re: should this make 600 hp [Re: BradH] #1975100
12/23/15 01:20 PM
12/23/15 01:20 PM
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okla.
sam64 Offline OP
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it will be going in that car,that was with a 11.5 440,car weighs 3340 w driver.
Originally Posted By BradH
Originally Posted By sam64
thanks for the feed back guys,i will put in the car and see what I get.

Is this the same car w/ the 10.86 at 123 ET & MPH in the signature? What's it weigh, and under what conditions did it run that?

Re: should this make 600 hp [Re: sam64] #1975109
12/23/15 01:37 PM
12/23/15 01:37 PM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
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FWIW:

My “really old” 440 combo (ported OEM heads, 254 at .050” SFT)
Best ET & MPH: 10.97@ 122.5
Weight: 3710 w/ driver
Formula HP: 532

My last 440 engine dyno results (ported Stage VI heads and 266 at .050” SFT): 610 HP / 570 Tq
Best ET & MPH: 10.52 @ 126.4
Weight: 3755 w/ driver
Formula HP: 592

Your ET & MPH: 10.86 @ 123
Weight: 3340 w/ driver
Formula HP: 485

My tracks are pretty close to sea level, and those times were from good-weather days. Adding close to a 1000 feet of track elevation, lower barometer, etc., and my 10.5s @ 126 would drop to 10.7-10.8s @ 122-123.

Re: should this make 600 hp [Re: LSP] #1975114
12/23/15 01:46 PM
12/23/15 01:46 PM
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Oregon
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Oregon
Originally Posted By LSP
Originally Posted By Blucuda413
This discussion begs the question, how accurate are the published formulas based on ET, MPH and weight. I've always accepted the results as valid, but are they??


The published hp per cfm apply to the guy that published them, but might not apply elsewhere depending on details of the rest of the engine combination. I'll surely catch some flak, but 241 cfm @ 28" on SF-1020 made 625hp on a SF-901. Was with a 12.5-1, hyd.roller cam, 360ci, 10.20 @ 131 in a 3300 lb. car.

I keep my own notes on builds, and have my own expectations based on the entire combination.


It is always possible to have combos that over achieve. The vast majority under achieve the 2 cfm per hp rule though. But really well sorted out combos with good heads, big cams and high compression can over achieve. My EZ heads flow 360 cfm and they've made over 900 hp on a short block with lot of compression, gas ported pistons, dry sump, etc. The 2 hp per cfm is just a rule of thumb that applies to the typical bracket type engine. SS, Comp Eliminator and Pro Stock engines get closer to 3 hp per cfm.

Re: should this make 600 hp [Re: sam64] #1975123
12/23/15 02:03 PM
12/23/15 02:03 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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If the heads are small to moderately sized, with decent flow for their size, and are put on a motor big enough to easily "use them up", with enough compression and cam to do that, it's really pretty easy to beat the general 2hp/cfm(for a v8) "rule".

As an example, it's going to be a lot easier to make 650hp using a 300cfm edelbrock with it bolted on a 12:1 505 with a roller cam than a 10:1 383 with a flat tappet cam.

I see plenty of combos over on YB in the N/A forum where people are beating the "formula". Well.... That formula anyway.

Re: should this make 600 hp [Re: sam64] #1975129
12/23/15 02:12 PM
12/23/15 02:12 PM
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Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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My solid cammed 906 headed 12.1.1 470 made 615 hp and 580 tq.........


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: should this make 600 hp [Re: onebadfish] #1975134
12/23/15 02:22 PM
12/23/15 02:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,513
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Originally Posted By onebadfish
I have a 512 with promax heads - 11.2/1 compression. I dynoed last week at 608 hp and 649 torque. Heads are cnc flowing 335. Cam is 260 @ .050. Roller rockers with 1.5 to 1 ratio. Cam is a solid flat tappet and intake is a 6 pack port matched to the heads and ported. I think you may be a little short with a 470 cubic inch motor.


That combo and dyno results look right in line with what I would expect. I think a better intake/ carb combo would better utilize the 335cfm heads and make even more power.

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