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Re: PS intake article [Re: madscientist] #1971514
12/17/15 04:44 PM
12/17/15 04:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Monte_Smith Offline
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Monte_Smith  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Originally Posted By madscientist
Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
I talked with Nick Ferri at PRI, who works for Elite Motorsports. I asked him two questions. One about the Mopar blocks, he said they had just received 3 new ones. I asked him about power. He said they started off 85hp down and were now 25 down. This was of last week. I just sent some more parts to an engine builder in Florida who has a Pro-Stock customer. His last set up was 30 down from a motor they qualified with last year and he had another manifold to try after PRI.

I have heard of no "problems" with the ECUs. It is simply our HP ECU with the software changes required by NHRA. The only thing I heard was that the RPM limiter could be "cracked" if someone put the time in and that was being addressed. All the parts from US/Holley, are in stock, shipping and have been. Anybody that wants or needs it, has it. They are NOT free. There is one set price, that is somewhere between our cost and dealer WD. All teams pay the same price, whether you buy one or ten.

The entire EFI "system" including TB, injectors, ECU, coils and required sensors, costs less than half one set of "Pro-Stock" prepped carbs from one of the gurus.

These guys change, intakes, carbs and cams, like most of us change socks. So just taking the carbs out of the equation helps.

I was at Steve Schmidt's shop several years ago when he was still leasing motors. He had one room in his shop, that was as big as a two car garage. Had shelving to the ceiling all around, that was jam packed with intakes, heads, carbs and cams. When I asked what that was, I was told that the "stuff that didn't work room".............lol!! And he was NOT a mega buck guy, so imagine what those guys had tried. When Mike Duke was there, he said they ordered CNC ported heads from CFM by the pallets. He would design a new port, flow test it and if it looked promising, he would do a set of heads and they would test. He said WAY more heads went in the "room" than went to the shop for further work



Ok Monte, you/Holley (using your reference above) win. It's the greatest thing ever to eliminate competition, and make the class even more boring, so I give and bow to your/Holley's/NHRA/s superior knowledge and wisdom.

FWIW and just so you know, Dodge refused to alter the PST bodies because even though they didn't win and had a significant HP advantage (I could tell you who was telling me this but you know it already and I don't like to name drop) was because they few trucks they had running were competitive and the trucks were selling at above production levels.

And Dodge knew NHRA was killing the class.

So you win.

I bow to your knowledge, prestige, wisdom and great looks (verified that by others who have seen you up close).

Later dude.
Why so hostile there dude? I am only repeating what I have been TOLD by people here recently. You don't like what they say, nor agree with what is being done, that's fine, but I personally don't have a damn thing to do with ANY of it. So how do I win, especially when I am not playing. What exactly do I WIN. I am NOT involved with the Pro-Stock program..........but I do KNOW people and they tend to talk to me when I see them and again, all I have done is repeat what THEY told me. I really have no interest in Pro-Stock and haven't in years. Would much rather see Pro-Mods on TV myself

Re: PS intake article [Re: Monte_Smith] #1971515
12/17/15 04:48 PM
12/17/15 04:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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madscientist Offline OP
master
madscientist  Offline OP
master
M

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
Originally Posted By madscientist
Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
I talked with Nick Ferri at PRI, who works for Elite Motorsports. I asked him two questions. One about the Mopar blocks, he said they had just received 3 new ones. I asked him about power. He said they started off 85hp down and were now 25 down. This was of last week. I just sent some more parts to an engine builder in Florida who has a Pro-Stock customer. His last set up was 30 down from a motor they qualified with last year and he had another manifold to try after PRI.

I have heard of no "problems" with the ECUs. It is simply our HP ECU with the software changes required by NHRA. The only thing I heard was that the RPM limiter could be "cracked" if someone put the time in and that was being addressed. All the parts from US/Holley, are in stock, shipping and have been. Anybody that wants or needs it, has it. They are NOT free. There is one set price, that is somewhere between our cost and dealer WD. All teams pay the same price, whether you buy one or ten.

The entire EFI "system" including TB, injectors, ECU, coils and required sensors, costs less than half one set of "Pro-Stock" prepped carbs from one of the gurus.

These guys change, intakes, carbs and cams, like most of us change socks. So just taking the carbs out of the equation helps.

I was at Steve Schmidt's shop several years ago when he was still leasing motors. He had one room in his shop, that was as big as a two car garage. Had shelving to the ceiling all around, that was jam packed with intakes, heads, carbs and cams. When I asked what that was, I was told that the "stuff that didn't work room".............lol!! And he was NOT a mega buck guy, so imagine what those guys had tried. When Mike Duke was there, he said they ordered CNC ported heads from CFM by the pallets. He would design a new port, flow test it and if it looked promising, he would do a set of heads and they would test. He said WAY more heads went in the "room" than went to the shop for further work



Ok Monte, you/Holley (using your reference above) win. It's the greatest thing ever to eliminate competition, and make the class even more boring, so I give and bow to your/Holley's/NHRA/s superior knowledge and wisdom.

FWIW and just so you know, Dodge refused to alter the PST bodies because even though they didn't win and had a significant HP advantage (I could tell you who was telling me this but you know it already and I don't like to name drop) was because they few trucks they had running were competitive and the trucks were selling at above production levels.

And Dodge knew NHRA was killing the class.

So you win.

I bow to your knowledge, prestige, wisdom and great looks (verified that by others who have seen you up close).

Later dude.
Why so hostile there dude? I am only repeating what I have been TOLD by people here recently. You don't like what they say, nor agree with what is being done, that's fine, but I personally don't have a damn thing to do with ANY of it. So how do I win, especially when I am not playing. What exactly do I WIN. I am NOT involved with the Pro-Stock program..........but I do KNOW people and they tend to talk to me when I see them and again, all I have done is repeat what THEY told me. I really have no interest in Pro-Stock and haven't in years. Would much rather see Pro-Mods on TV myself



Not hostile "dude". So nevermind. Just keep plugging at something you have no interest in, to make me think it's going to be better. There's irony in there. See if you catch it.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: PS intake article [Re: madscientist] #1971573
12/17/15 06:39 PM
12/17/15 06:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 550
Camp Point, IL
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gofish Offline
mopar
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mopar
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 550
Camp Point, IL
I have no doubt they will figure the fuel injection out pretty fast, the rpm limit will have more of an effect on some teams than on others.

I am curious what difference losing the hood scoop will amount to. Years ago WJ claimed it took 50 HP to push those scoops through the air. They will gain some on the lack of drag. Not sure how much HP they will be down overall though but if they are within 30 hp now and losing the scoop actually gains the equivalent of 50 hp, they won't be any slower. We'll know for sure by mid season.

Another thing I kind of like, it shakes everything up, those that have dominated in the past may not pick up the new tune as fast as some of the other teams. I suspect it will be after mid-season before the dominate teams are known.

Danny

Re: PS intake article [Re: gofish] #1971626
12/17/15 08:06 PM
12/17/15 08:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,688
W. Kentucky
justinp61 Offline
I Live Here
justinp61  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,688
W. Kentucky
Originally Posted By gofish
I have no doubt they will figure the fuel injection out pretty fast, the rpm limit will have more of an effect on some teams than on others.

I am curious what difference losing the hood scoop will amount to. Years ago WJ claimed it took 50 HP to push those scoops through the air. They will gain some on the lack of drag. Not sure how much HP they will be down overall though but if they are within 30 hp now and losing the scoop actually gains the equivalent of 50 hp, they won't be any slower. We'll know for sure by mid season.

Another thing I kind of like, it shakes everything up, those that have dominated in the past may not pick up the new tune as fast as some of the other teams. I suspect it will be after mid-season before the dominate teams are known.

Danny


iagree

Re: PS intake article [Re: justinp61] #1971895
12/18/15 01:49 AM
12/18/15 01:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
3
383man Offline
Too Many Posts
383man  Offline
Too Many Posts
3

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
Myself I lived the first Pro Stock era when they came around in 1970 and I loved it and was glad I got to live the era. Since I loved muscle cars and the first Pro Stocks from the 70 to 72 years was great as a muscle car nut because they were close to what you could buy.
So myself I think the new change may be cool if it brings the cars closer to what the average guy can relate to. You know I mean if they run an eng something like the manufactor puts in the cars and if they sorta look like the car that it is. I dont know but I hope its a step in the right direction for the sport and the fans and we may even enjoy them more. Ron

Last edited by 383man; 12/18/15 01:50 AM.
Re: PS intake article [Re: madscientist] #1972156
12/18/15 03:22 PM
12/18/15 03:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,395
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
I Live Here
Al_Alguire  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,395
Las Vegas
Talked to a buddy last night who was a big name PS carb builder. Told me he talked to some of the PS engine guys at PRI and the big name shops were down on power about an average of 40hp. They did all express concerns that it will look worse in the car due to the air intake set up especially in the summer on hot tracks. Since the airstream for the new intake is basically a couple inches off the racing surface not. Not in clean cooler air it was in with the carbs.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: PS intake article [Re: madscientist] #1972373
12/18/15 10:55 PM
12/18/15 10:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
dthemi Offline
master
dthemi  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
WOW, must be getting cold for the conversation to head the way it's going.

How about the cars make 4 shifts, and at each one the engine goes lean from the rpm change with carbs. Not anymore with EFI, so there will be benefits, and losses.

I've heard it straight from 2 PS racers that the rpm deal is a huge money saver. Not to mention the guys who never went above 10,500 may now be at a slight advantage maximizing that rpm. The guys above that will have to change everything to get back to power at 10,500.

For sure that manifold picture has nothing to do with PS aside from being made of aluminum lol.

Take it easy on each other fellas,,,it's Christmas lol.

Re: PS intake article [Re: madscientist] #1972460
12/19/15 01:11 AM
12/19/15 01:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,258
Canada
WO23Coronet Offline
master
WO23Coronet  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,258
Canada
To keep the power up with the rpm limit, why didn't they give them a displacement boost? 540" range?

Re: PS intake article [Re: madscientist] #1972560
12/19/15 10:10 AM
12/19/15 10:10 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 494
IL
E
EchoSixMike Offline
mopar
EchoSixMike  Offline
mopar
E

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 494
IL
Because NHRA has no interest in things going faster. Most everything they've done for the last generation or more has been intended to slow things down, or reduce the rate of increase anyways.

They'll have the power back within 2 years, probably sooner, then it will resume climbing from there. Progress will continue. If they really wanted to cut costs, why not go to pneumatic valvesprings like F1? That's mature tech.

Have they figured out the issues with running 1/4 mile cars on tracks prepped for 1000ft nitro cars yet? If they wanted to increase safety, they(NHRA) would mandate minimum spoiler angles, so these cars wouldn't be so twitchy. S/F.....Ken M

Last edited by EchoSixMike; 12/19/15 10:11 AM.
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