How thick is that washer on the front pump ?

Those waffle clutches are trashed ...

Is it just me or does the front drum not look fully seated in the sun shell , what was your end play ?

I see we found the high clutch damage. Look where the reaction shaft support rings ride in the drum. Is it worn? If so it needs a replacement drum. You can air check the piston by sliding the drum on to the pump (reload it with clutches and steels first) It should thud without much hiss. Truly the most difficult part of the entire build is reinstalling the high clutch piston. The rest is cake.
Doug

Delamination=water/antifreeze contamination. The fluid looks milky in the pan shot. Make sure the trans cooler isn't leaky or just replace it. If the trans sat in storage it may have gotten moisture in it, but given all the issues you have had a new radiator is cheap insurance. You could just use an external cooler.

Pan shot was with brake cleaner sprayed into it when I cleaned te valve body, fluid that came out was red and didn't smell burnt.I will get measurements and air check the piston and repot back

Discoloration on the front band is the anti-rust dip.

The fiber thrust washer on the front pump should be thicker, normally the thickest selective thrust washer goes on the pump.

Remove the sealing rings from the pump, hook them and insert into the front drum to check their fit. If they're loose in their bore, leakage might explain the toasted front clutches. Also, check the bore of the drum for deep wear where the rings ride.

in no particular order

the front thin washer that looks like it has a shoulder ( is it supposed to ?) measured .0155" thick, between the front and rear clutch packs that thick chunker measured .0825" thick, the rear clutch pack air checked good, front..... I could hear air hissing, not loud at only 30 psi, but its definitely was leaking out the hole in the front drum that the input shaft goes through had two blackish wear marks from the rings, couldn't feel any grooving, maybe new rings will seal better ? worst case new reaction shaft ? bushable ? I haven't broken the front clutch down completely to check the seal, but I did count nine springs in the drum, all the bushings in the tail stock, front pump etc looked good except for all the copper/bronze floater bushings on the planetaries, most of the tabs are cracked, like the steel looks cracked, i will have to bust out the lighted magnifying glass tomorrow and see for sure.

Speaking of planetaries, are they supposed to look like the units pictured above ? I know they are cast aluminium, but the machining is crap from factory !!!! Input and output shafts looked real good though, no scoring or damage, and the ball bearing on the output shaft has no play, like newness Also when i pulled the front pump the gasket between the pump and the bell had shellac on it, the bolts had shellac on them, is that safe to use on the gasket in the trans ? I have used shellac before, and quite love it, just not a place I thought I would use it

I can't see the pictures here at work , but that front washer should not have a shoulder and if that measurement is right then you have a problem there , it's too thin. What is the thickness of the shouldered part?

I'm going to stick with my original assessment that the front input shaft and from drum assembly were not fully seated and the front drum wore away the front washer/spacer because it was forced against it.

No gasket sealer is needed on the front pump gasket or on the bolts ... the bolt holes are dry ... I have never had a leak with a plain paper gasket, the o ring around the pump and the correct pump bolt sealing washers.

its the same thickness, its like the washer had a smaller inner diameter and was forced down creating the lip/flange/shoulder what ever you want to call it, its right about the same thickness as the rest of the washer, I tried my best to get them to seat together and its the best i could come up with in the pics above of the drum and sunshell,

-Mike

It doesn't look fully seated to me. the lugs should be closer to the bottom , try using a thin blade screw driver to line all the clutches up so you can slide it together in one straight shot , otherwise it takes a lot of turning and hoping it drops eventually.

And that front washer should be at least .060 or more as John K said .

Nice thread. Just leaving my crumbs here to find as I may be doing the same rebuild on my 150 mile trans.

John RR, what about the mid/thick washer, is it in the right place ? what should it have measured at ?

-Mike

I am not sure , but it might be the .060? I'd have to go thru notes on transmissions I have built to see which one I used where ... it's been a while since I did one.

But I will say this , there is no .015 plastic washer that goes in those areas.

it's not plastic from what I can tell but super thin metal

The fiber thrust washer between the front pump and direct drum is selective thickness and could be 0.070" - 0.100" thick. These may be still available thru MOPAR dealer or you can get them from John Cope (CRT trans) or A&A. The fiber thrust washer between the direct drum and the forward drum (drum with input shaft) is a set thickness of 0.061". Since you mentioned during the air test of the direct drum you heard leakage, the piston needs to be removed and lip seals inspected/replaced. Need a spring compressor or carefully use a couple of C-clamps. They could have been cut during the last rebuild. The sealing rings on the back of the pump (Stator support) should be replaced. Check the fit in the direct drum as John Kunkel suggested. I always replace the bushing in the direct drum or at least inspect it because it maintains alignment of the direct drum on the stator support. If the bushing is worn out, the sealing rings will wear quickly. The fitment of the engagement lugs of the direct drum into the sun shell is critical to ensure all the clutch discs are engaged on the front planetary annulus gear splines. Should be below the edge of the square notches. The direct drum should be installed onto the forward drum (outside the trans) until it drops down to contact the fiber thrust washer. Keep rocking and turning until it drops. Replace the small fiber washer on the tip of the output shaft with a bronze washer. The fiber washers take a pounding. Several sources carry them. Then take the assembled direct drum and forward drum and install into the trans again spinning and rocking until the engagement lugs are below the front surface. Typically an 1/8" below maybe a little more. Again it should feel solid when bottomed out. Coat the stator support sealing rings with assembly grease. Be careful when installing the pump as you could damage the sealing rings. Once the pump is reinstalled, I would air check the drums and servos. . Also check input shaft end play. Should be .030 - 0.080"ish. The lower end of the spec is best. Let us know how it goes.

As was stated above me that washer should not be a thin metal washer.

Take a feeler gauge and check side clearance between the two reaction shaft seal rings and their grooves. 2nd picture in the series - unless it is an optical illusion the bottom ring looks like it has a lot more clearance in it's groove than the top ring. The L/R drum is wounded because your front clutch is leaking.

Your right about the gap Transman, top gap measured a solid .005" at 4 different spots, bottom ring gap measured in at .012" at 4 different spots, I have checked both my trans star and carl monroe books, and I couldn't find a gap limit on the rings,
-Mike