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Re: I'm on budget but still wanna have fun
[Re: HP2]
#1970281
12/15/15 05:40 PM
12/15/15 05:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Uumm, on your other thread the converter in the pics is an 8" munsinger.
Is that what was in the car?
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: I'm on budget but still wanna have fun
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#1970395
12/15/15 08:49 PM
12/15/15 08:49 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 523
Right here
HP2
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 523
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Uumm, on your other thread the converter in the pics is an 8" munsinger.
Is that what was in the car? Yes it is in my car... I thought I had a 10" in it... Sorry, too many things going on maybe  What stall could I have with it?
70 W100 Power Wagon. 318 4-spd
70 Sport Fury 440 2dr HT
71 Duster 340
71 Charger Super Bee - 383/727
72 Charger "Sabotage" - 440/727 - Street/Strip
78 Warlock in beautiful patina
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Re: I'm on budget but still wanna have fun
[Re: HP2]
#1970701
12/16/15 07:48 AM
12/16/15 07:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,838
Central Missouri Fort Leonard...
mopar65
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,838
Central Missouri Fort Leonard...
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Uumm, on your other thread the converter in the pics is an 8" munsinger.
Is that what was in the car? Yes it is in my car... I thought I had a 10" in it... Sorry, too many things going on maybe What stall could I have with it? well to save some money call and talk to Lenny about redoing the one you have now. I sent him my 8 inch ATI and i think it around 300+ maybe shipping to have him go through mine. he checked it over to make sure it wasn't damaged etc and changed the stall speed for me. I bought the ATI used and in my car was stalling way to much.Lenny fixed it to wear should of been in my car. well it sounds like two of them are recommending the stall speeds around 3800-4200. also what does the one you have stall now? i ask becasue i traded for a supposedly built 8 inch 5500 converter for my 65 Big block Plymouth II B-body. well that converter was junk it felt like you was pulling a stump all the time. The best the car would run at Gateway that time was a 11.19 at 119 mph in the 1/4. So a few weeks latter i traded a friend of mine out of a 8 inch Turbo-action converter.all i did was change converters and my 65 went from low elevens in the 1/4 to 10.56 at 125 in the 1/4. Now i am not saying that the same thing wont happen to you, it might but you wont know till you try. was just trying to show you how a bad converter can make a car act.Best of luck to you Bobby
3520 pound race ready 1973 Street/Strip Dodge Dart - Stock stroke 440/727
10.49 @ 125.0 on 93 pump gas & ET Street Radials. More to come...
( SGT Miller) Proudly served 12 years in the US ARMY RESERVES
support our troops
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Re: I'm on budget but still wanna have fun
[Re: HP2]
#1970741
12/16/15 12:01 PM
12/16/15 12:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,374
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,374
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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I feel like a high dollar billet race converter w/ a mechanical diode is overkill for this particular car.
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: I'm on budget but still wanna have fun
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#1977012
12/27/15 11:08 AM
12/27/15 11:08 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 523
Right here
HP2
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
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Posts: 523
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The heads has arrived! I haven't had any time for a closer look but after a quick look they look fine. Will try to upload some pics later.
I need advice for spring selection. I don't know much about this topic. Anyone know about any good article?
70 W100 Power Wagon. 318 4-spd
70 Sport Fury 440 2dr HT
71 Duster 340
71 Charger Super Bee - 383/727
72 Charger "Sabotage" - 440/727 - Street/Strip
78 Warlock in beautiful patina
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Re: I'm on budget but still wanna have fun
[Re: camdog440]
#1977204
12/27/15 04:16 PM
12/27/15 04:16 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 523
Right here
HP2
OP
mopar
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I think they are called Sidewinders in the US. I got them from a company here in Sweden who gets them directly from the manufacturer. There's no name on the box or on the heads.
70 W100 Power Wagon. 318 4-spd
70 Sport Fury 440 2dr HT
71 Duster 340
71 Charger Super Bee - 383/727
72 Charger "Sabotage" - 440/727 - Street/Strip
78 Warlock in beautiful patina
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Re: I'm on budget but still wanna have fun
[Re: HP2]
#1993566
01/18/16 09:05 PM
01/18/16 09:05 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 523
Right here
HP2
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 523
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Finally got the time to get those 906's off and do the measurements.
I'll take it from start so you don't have to go back:
440” bored .030
JE (5cc valve relief) pistons .012 under deck
alu .022 compressed head gasket
906 heads measured yesterday to 79cc
That gives me 10.94:1 static compression. Correct me if I’m wrong.
No signs of pingin on piston tops or in combustion chambers.
I have been running expensive alkylate 100 octane gas just because the cylinder pressure was close to 200 psi after I put the cam in.
(I lost my notes and I couldn't remember the compression ratio)
Before I removed the heads I redid a compression test and again got 190-205 psi (cold engine) on all cylinders. Intake and headers removed, all plugs out, "hi torque" cheapo mini starter.
How can I get such a high cyl pressure with Hughes cam HTL5256BS installed at zero?
70 W100 Power Wagon. 318 4-spd
70 Sport Fury 440 2dr HT
71 Duster 340
71 Charger Super Bee - 383/727
72 Charger "Sabotage" - 440/727 - Street/Strip
78 Warlock in beautiful patina
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Re: I'm on budget but still wanna have fun
[Re: HP2]
#1993669
01/18/16 10:28 PM
01/18/16 10:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506
So. Burlington, Vt.
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That sounds about right to me.
My 383, 10.75cr, 256/262-106 cam in at 102....... Around 190-200 psi.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: I'm on budget but still wanna have fun
[Re: HP2]
#1993699
01/18/16 10:58 PM
01/18/16 10:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,467
Sydney,Australia
tex013
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,467
Sydney,Australia
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Todd @ Moparts sells the Sidewinders . Put a set of max wedge ones on a friends 440 . Going good so far . Have not dynoed or raced it yet .
Tex
New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
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Re: I'm on budget but still wanna have fun
[Re: HP2]
#2016692
02/21/16 05:22 PM
02/21/16 05:22 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 523
Right here
HP2
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2004
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After chatting with Dave @ Hughes it stands clear that I must have screwed up and installed the cam advanced. Cam has 4 deg "built in" the grinding and I probably forgot at some point when I degreed it. I have also been running with too much lash from looking at wrong spec sheet.
What an idiot huh!
Now when I'm going with aluminum heads 200 psi would be a good number, but with the combo I have an advanced cam will slow my car down.
Let me hear you experienced racers and engine builders opinions on cam choice. Just set my cam at zero, or get a bigger cam?
I'll repeat the specs below. The only thing that's unknown is the cars weight. Someone here might be able to estimate it?
1972 Charger
Fenders and both bumpers including brackets fiberglass, plastic 72 grille, 71 R/T rear lights, no back seat, carpet or heater box. Lightweight plastic racing seats, original front door panels and original dash is all that's in there.
Lights, wipers and everything works. All original glass.
Add the weight from some bars since I will have to install some now.
Welded in subframe connectors, Comp Eng Slide-A-Link bars, 318 torsion bars, Comp Eng 90/10 front and race shocks in rear. Front disc brakes. Power brakes with vacuum pump. Cold air T/A style scoop.
440 .030 over, top decked, fully balanced steel crank with
JE custom flat top pistons .012 under cyl deck,
Hughes solid cam HTL5256BS (610/614 w/1.6 rockers, 252/256deg, 108 deg lobe sep angle).
Sidewinder heads, 2.14/1.81 valves. Comparable to ported Edelbrock RPM's in flow numbers. 84cc but will probably have to mill them down a little when I know what cam to use.
Harland Sharp 1.6 rockers
M1 intake
950 Holley DP
tti 2" O.D. tubes with 3-1/2" collectors extended around 18",
I have modified an universal crank trigger ignition with dual coils, fully adjustable. 10 deg at start and a flat curve running, seems like it likes 36 deg best. Big difference compared to the MSD I ditched. No splutter, no missing, fires right up and steady readings!
Man valve Th 727, 8" Munsinger converter
4.30 Sure Grip
Best 1/8 ET 7.32/95.3 mph, 1.662 60' on 9" slicks, slippery track.
70 W100 Power Wagon. 318 4-spd
70 Sport Fury 440 2dr HT
71 Duster 340
71 Charger Super Bee - 383/727
72 Charger "Sabotage" - 440/727 - Street/Strip
78 Warlock in beautiful patina
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Re: I'm on budget but still wanna have fun
[Re: gregsdart]
#2016738
02/21/16 06:43 PM
02/21/16 06:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570
UK
rb446
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570
UK
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Well I can tell you that my '69 cuda 446ci at approx 10:1CR went from 11.3@118 with stock 906's to 10.7@125 with no other mods than fitting TP 2.14/1.81 906's that I bet didn't flow much more than 260cfm, and I only ran it the once before hitting it with spray, reckon it could've gone in the 10.5's with some tweaking. I did run a .650/290@.050 solid FT cam and because of that I bet nowhere near your 200psi CP, I probably would've made more power with a cam with less dur. and an earlier closing intake valve, comp is not all of the story. That would 99.9% be a Chinese made Head, those 294cfm numbers are rather happy numbers if they are OOTB, Eddys don't flow that much, probably where Jegs get their heads from. Even if they manage 275cfm its gonna make you fly.
Last edited by rb446; 02/21/16 07:13 PM.
1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990
1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
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Re: I'm on budget but still wanna have fun
[Re: HP2]
#2016948
02/21/16 11:17 PM
02/21/16 11:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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After chatting with Dave @ Hughes it stands clear that I must have screwed up and installed the cam advanced. Cam has 4 deg "built in" the grinding and I probably forgot at some point when I degreed it. I have also been running with too much lash from looking at wrong spec sheet.
What an idiot huh!
Now when I'm going with aluminum heads 200 psi would be a good number, but with the combo I have an advanced cam will slow my car down.
Let me hear you experienced racers and engine builders opinions on cam choice. Just set my cam at zero, or get a bigger cam?
I'll repeat the specs below. The only thing that's unknown is the cars weight. Someone here might be able to estimate it?
1972 Charger
Fenders and both bumpers including brackets fiberglass, plastic 72 grille, 71 R/T rear lights, no back seat, carpet or heater box. Lightweight plastic racing seats, original front door panels and original dash is all that's in there.
Lights, wipers and everything works. All original glass.
Add the weight from some bars since I will have to install some now.
Welded in subframe connectors, Comp Eng Slide-A-Link bars, 318 torsion bars, Comp Eng 90/10 front and race shocks in rear. Front disc brakes. Power brakes with vacuum pump. Cold air T/A style scoop.
440 .030 over, top decked, fully balanced steel crank with
JE custom flat top pistons .012 under cyl deck,
Hughes solid cam HTL5256BS (610/614 w/1.6 rockers, 252/256deg, 108 deg lobe sep angle).
Sidewinder heads, 2.14/1.81 valves. Comparable to ported Edelbrock RPM's in flow numbers. 84cc but will probably have to mill them down a little when I know what cam to use.
Harland Sharp 1.6 rockers
M1 intake
950 Holley DP
tti 2" O.D. tubes with 3-1/2" collectors extended around 18",
I have modified an universal crank trigger ignition with dual coils, fully adjustable. 10 deg at start and a flat curve running, seems like it likes 36 deg best. Big difference compared to the MSD I ditched. No splutter, no missing, fires right up and steady readings!
Man valve Th 727, 8" Munsinger converter
4.30 Sure Grip
Best 1/8 ET 7.32/95.3 mph, 1.662 60' on 9" slicks, slippery track. You dont state the stall on the conv.. but if you dont advance that cam you will be slower... you need all the help you can down low in the RPM and your headers are big for it... whats your max RPM when you cross the line.. and what gear are you in.. if your in high gear I expect you have low RPM 
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Re: I'm on budget but still wanna have fun
[Re: rb446]
#2017320
02/22/16 12:58 PM
02/22/16 12:58 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 523
Right here
HP2
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 523
Right here
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Well I can tell you that my '69 cuda 446ci at approx 10:1CR went from 11.3@118 with stock 906's to 10.7@125 with no other mods than fitting TP 2.14/1.81 906's that I bet didn't flow much more than 260cfm, and I only ran it the once before hitting it with spray, reckon it could've gone in the 10.5's with some tweaking. I did run a .650/290@.050 solid FT cam and because of that I bet nowhere near your 200psi CP, I probably would've made more power with a cam with less dur. and an earlier closing intake valve, comp is not all of the story. That would 99.9% be a Chinese made Head, those 294cfm numbers are rather happy numbers if they are OOTB, Eddys don't flow that much, probably where Jegs get their heads from. Even if they manage 275cfm its gonna make you fly. I'm an amateur porter with now flow bench but I'm doing my very best to make the heads look better by blending bowls and matching to intake, has also back cut intake valves and will do a 3- or 4-deg seat job. They are Eddy copies from China, correct  See pics above in this thread. Will upload some after porting when I'm done. I'm really looking forward to see if they can make me fly! 
70 W100 Power Wagon. 318 4-spd
70 Sport Fury 440 2dr HT
71 Duster 340
71 Charger Super Bee - 383/727
72 Charger "Sabotage" - 440/727 - Street/Strip
78 Warlock in beautiful patina
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Re: I'm on budget but still wanna have fun
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2017332
02/22/16 01:08 PM
02/22/16 01:08 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 523
Right here
HP2
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 523
Right here
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You dont state the stall on the conv.. but if you dont advance that cam you will be slower... you need all the help you can down low in the RPM and your headers are big for it... whats your max RPM when you cross the line.. and what gear are you in.. if your in high gear I expect you have low RPM [/quote] I didn't state stall because I don't know for sure. If I'd guess I'd say around 4,200 but that's just my guess. Maybe I should aim for 78-79cc when I mill the heads and leave the cam as it is (probably 4 deg advanced) and stay with 200 psi? With a tighter lash things will change a little in both ends. I'm just an amateur with a very bad memory so I don't remember rpm crossing finish line... :s but I'm in 3:rd gear and rps are at least at 5,500 or even higher if I recall correctly...
70 W100 Power Wagon. 318 4-spd
70 Sport Fury 440 2dr HT
71 Duster 340
71 Charger Super Bee - 383/727
72 Charger "Sabotage" - 440/727 - Street/Strip
78 Warlock in beautiful patina
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Re: I'm on budget but still wanna have fun
[Re: HP2]
#2017352
02/22/16 01:45 PM
02/22/16 01:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506
So. Burlington, Vt.
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The cam timing should be checked. Thinking it's "advanced" because you may used a different position on the timing set doesn't tell you anything.
Rechecking the intake centerline is the only way to know where it really is, and then make an educated decision on whether to leave it where it is or move it.
Assuming the cam has a 108lsa, If it's in at 104-106 I'd leave it.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: I'm on budget but still wanna have fun
[Re: qwkmopardan]
#2017915
02/23/16 08:28 AM
02/23/16 08:28 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 523
Right here
HP2
OP
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OP
mopar
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Right here
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That is a 1971 Charger, not a 1972 Haha, no my car is a 72 canopy top, but I wanted it to look like a 71 so I put 71 side markers and tail lights on. If you look close you can see that they're not flush with the fenders Couldn't find R/T doors so I can't say it's a 71 R/T clone. Like the 72 grille better and kept the wide moldings under the side glass.
70 W100 Power Wagon. 318 4-spd
70 Sport Fury 440 2dr HT
71 Duster 340
71 Charger Super Bee - 383/727
72 Charger "Sabotage" - 440/727 - Street/Strip
78 Warlock in beautiful patina
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