Re: BB 727 woes
[Re: Volare4life]
#1959365
11/28/15 07:01 PM
11/28/15 07:01 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282
A gulag near you.
|
How thick is that washer on the front pump ?
Those waffle clutches are trashed ...
Is it just me or does the front drum not look fully seated in the sun shell , what was your end play ?
Mainstream Media is the new Pravda
|
|
|
Re: BB 727 woes
[Re: Volare4life]
#1959854
11/29/15 07:26 PM
11/29/15 07:26 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 119 Jacksonville , Fl
Volare4life
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 119
Jacksonville , Fl
|
Pan shot was with brake cleaner sprayed into it when I cleaned te valve body, fluid that came out was red and didn't smell burnt.I will get measurements and air check the piston and repot back
The answers are out there you just got to look hard enough
|
|
|
Re: BB 727 woes
[Re: Volare4life]
#1959918
11/29/15 09:37 PM
11/29/15 09:37 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,538 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,538
Rio Linda, CA
|
Discoloration on the front band is the anti-rust dip.
The fiber thrust washer on the front pump should be thicker, normally the thickest selective thrust washer goes on the pump.
Remove the sealing rings from the pump, hook them and insert into the front drum to check their fit. If they're loose in their bore, leakage might explain the toasted front clutches. Also, check the bore of the drum for deep wear where the rings ride.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
|
|
|
Re: BB 727 woes
[Re: Volare4life]
#1960019
11/30/15 12:19 AM
11/30/15 12:19 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 119 Jacksonville , Fl
Volare4life
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 119
Jacksonville , Fl
|
the front thin washer that looks like it has a shoulder ( is it supposed to ?) measured .0155" thick, between the front and rear clutch packs that thick chunker measured .0825" thick, the rear clutch pack air checked good, front..... I could hear air hissing, not loud at only 30 psi, but its definitely was leaking out the hole in the front drum that the input shaft goes through had two blackish wear marks from the rings, couldn't feel any grooving, maybe new rings will seal better ? worst case new reaction shaft ? bushable ? I haven't broken the front clutch down completely to check the seal, but I did count nine springs in the drum, all the bushings in the tail stock, front pump etc looked good except for all the copper/bronze floater bushings on the planetaries, most of the tabs are cracked, like the steel looks cracked, i will have to bust out the lighted magnifying glass tomorrow and see for sure. Speaking of planetaries, are they supposed to look like the units pictured above ? I know they are cast aluminium, but the machining is crap from factory !!!! Input and output shafts looked real good though, no scoring or damage, and the ball bearing on the output shaft has no play, like newness Also when i pulled the front pump the gasket between the pump and the bell had shellac on it, the bolts had shellac on them, is that safe to use on the gasket in the trans ? I have used shellac before, and quite love it, just not a place I thought I would use it
The answers are out there you just got to look hard enough
|
|
|
Re: BB 727 woes
[Re: Volare4life]
#1960289
11/30/15 04:25 PM
11/30/15 04:25 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282
A gulag near you.
|
I can't see the pictures here at work , but that front washer should not have a shoulder and if that measurement is right then you have a problem there , it's too thin. What is the thickness of the shouldered part?
I'm going to stick with my original assessment that the front input shaft and from drum assembly were not fully seated and the front drum wore away the front washer/spacer because it was forced against it.
No gasket sealer is needed on the front pump gasket or on the bolts ... the bolt holes are dry ... I have never had a leak with a plain paper gasket, the o ring around the pump and the correct pump bolt sealing washers.
Mainstream Media is the new Pravda
|
|
|
Re: BB 727 woes
[Re: Volare4life]
#1960619
12/01/15 01:02 AM
12/01/15 01:02 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 119 Jacksonville , Fl
Volare4life
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 119
Jacksonville , Fl
|
its the same thickness, its like the washer had a smaller inner diameter and was forced down creating the lip/flange/shoulder what ever you want to call it, its right about the same thickness as the rest of the washer, I tried my best to get them to seat together and its the best i could come up with in the pics above of the drum and sunshell,
-Mike
The answers are out there you just got to look hard enough
|
|
|
Re: BB 727 woes
[Re: Volare4life]
#1960685
12/01/15 02:21 AM
12/01/15 02:21 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282
A gulag near you.
|
its the same thickness, its like the washer had a smaller inner diameter and was forced down creating the lip/flange/shoulder what ever you want to call it, its right about the same thickness as the rest of the washer, I tried my best to get them to seat together and its the best i could come up with in the pics above of the drum and sunshell,
-Mike It doesn't look fully seated to me. the lugs should be closer to the bottom , try using a thin blade screw driver to line all the clutches up so you can slide it together in one straight shot , otherwise it takes a lot of turning and hoping it drops eventually. And that front washer should be at least .060 or more as John K said .
Mainstream Media is the new Pravda
|
|
|
Re: BB 727 woes
[Re: Volare4life]
#1961139
12/01/15 06:52 PM
12/01/15 06:52 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 119 Jacksonville , Fl
Volare4life
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 119
Jacksonville , Fl
|
John RR, what about the mid/thick washer, is it in the right place ? what should it have measured at ?
-Mike
The answers are out there you just got to look hard enough
|
|
|
Re: BB 727 woes
[Re: Volare4life]
#1961204
12/01/15 08:26 PM
12/01/15 08:26 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282
A gulag near you.
|
John RR, what about the mid/thick washer, is it in the right place ? what should it have measured at ?
-Mike I am not sure , but it might be the .060? I'd have to go thru notes on transmissions I have built to see which one I used where ... it's been a while since I did one. But I will say this , there is no .015 plastic washer that goes in those areas.
Mainstream Media is the new Pravda
|
|
|
Re: BB 727 woes
[Re: Volare4life]
#1961966
12/02/15 08:03 PM
12/02/15 08:03 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282
A gulag near you.
|
it's not plastic from what I can tell but super thin metal As was stated above me that washer should not be a thin metal washer.
Mainstream Media is the new Pravda
|
|
|
Re: BB 727 woes
[Re: Volare4life]
#1962114
12/02/15 11:41 PM
12/02/15 11:41 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,178 Michigan
A727Tflite
master
|
master
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,178
Michigan
|
Take a feeler gauge and check side clearance between the two reaction shaft seal rings and their grooves. 2nd picture in the series - unless it is an optical illusion the bottom ring looks like it has a lot more clearance in it's groove than the top ring. The L/R drum is wounded because your front clutch is leaking.
Last edited by Transman; 12/02/15 11:45 PM.
|
|
|
Re: BB 727 woes
[Re: Volare4life]
#1963067
12/04/15 01:26 PM
12/04/15 01:26 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 119 Jacksonville , Fl
Volare4life
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 119
Jacksonville , Fl
|
Your right about the gap Transman, top gap measured a solid .005" at 4 different spots, bottom ring gap measured in at .012" at 4 different spots, I have checked both my trans star and carl monroe books, and I couldn't find a gap limit on the rings, -Mike
The answers are out there you just got to look hard enough
|
|
|
|
|