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Re: The ongoing quest for MORE caster, 71 Road Runner [Re: Kern Dog] #1954371
11/19/15 04:56 PM
11/19/15 04:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,105
Western Md.
skicker Offline
"The Champ"
skicker  Offline
"The Champ"

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,105
Western Md.
Being as your basically sandwiching them between the LBJ and spindle grade 8 may not be required as there is no shear force applied. twocents


...FAFO...
Re: The ongoing quest for MORE caster, 71 Road Runner [Re: Kern Dog] #1954473
11/19/15 08:27 PM
11/19/15 08:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,847
MI, usa
dvw Offline
master
dvw  Offline
master

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Posts: 9,847
MI, usa
The problem is seldom getting enough negative caster. If you turn the rear cams all the way in and fronts all the way out to gain maximum caster the camber will usually end up in the negative range, The problem results if you desire 0 camber. Then the rear cam must be rotated out, to increase camber and reducing caster. It's a trade off of trying to get enough positive camber and caster. I have never seen much over 2.5 degrees on a B-Body after doing hundreds of them. I don't believe anyone obtained 5 degrees of caster without modifying the attachment points. The idea of shimming the lower ball joint will obtain negative camber but you still won't effect the caster reading much if any. To gain caster you must either move the upper ball joint rearward or the lower ball joint forward, if your out of adjustment then either the upper arm or strut rod need to be modified. Also as I stated earlier every degree of forward chassis rake reduces caster by a like amount. 2 degrees of chassis rake is not uncommon with lowered front end.
Doug

Re: The ongoing quest for MORE caster, 71 Road Runner [Re: dvw] #1954716
11/20/15 02:33 AM
11/20/15 02:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
Striving for excellence
Kern Dog  Offline OP
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Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Currently, the front cams are about middle of their adjustment. My goal was to add in the NEG camber via the spacer washers, then some will come out when the front cams are adjusted out. In theory, (Ha-ha) this should result in a caster improvement as well as a slight negative camber. Curently the camber is slightly positive.

I cannot explain how I was able to get the 4.7ish caster #s from my car. It was around 2.4 to 2.6 with the urethane UCA bushings before swapping in the Moog 7103s. My UCAs are stock, the LCAs are stock but I do have urethane strut rod bushings. Maybe they are thinner than the stock rubber ones? This would have the effect of moving the lower ball joint forward a tad. scope

Re: The ongoing quest for MORE caster, 71 Road Runner [Re: Kern Dog] #1954768
11/20/15 09:20 AM
11/20/15 09:20 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,847
MI, usa
dvw Offline
master
dvw  Offline
master

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MI, usa
Are the rear cams all the way in?
Doug

Re: The ongoing quest for MORE caster, 71 Road Runner [Re: dvw] #1954929
11/20/15 04:33 PM
11/20/15 04:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
Striving for excellence
Kern Dog  Offline OP
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Granite Bay CA
Yes they are.

Re: The ongoing quest for MORE caster, 71 Road Runner [Re: Kern Dog] #1954977
11/20/15 06:04 PM
11/20/15 06:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,906
Athens, Greece
Pyper70 Offline
master
Pyper70  Offline
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Athens, Greece
I haven't read the whole thing line by line but we installed FirmFeel UCA with the BallJoint placed on from them and the factory eccentric bolts on my buddy's 72 Roadrunner 440 4speed. They advertise an extra 4ยบ of built in caster. I aligned it myself using a DIY wheel alignment kit I bought. Toe wasn't a problem. 1/16" of an inch each side for 1/8" total toe...I can't remember my camber setting on it though

Last edited by Pyper70; 11/20/15 06:04 PM.

Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
Re: The ongoing quest for MORE caster, 71 Road Runner [Re: Kern Dog] #1955009
11/20/15 07:32 PM
11/20/15 07:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,847
MI, usa
dvw Offline
master
dvw  Offline
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MI, usa
Originally Posted By Frankenduster
Yes they are.
I reread the entire post. What I don't see is where your specs are at now. One question I didnt ask. Does this car have late spindles like F body for a disc brake conversion? They add positive camber. I personally have never seen too much positive camber with the rear cams all the way in, almost always negative. Add to that it appears you have offsets in the rear location as well? Is that correct? If so and all are in the correct location something else is incorrect. Either strut rod bushings pushing the lower arm rearward, something bent, misassembled.
Doug

Re: The ongoing quest for MORE caster, 71 Road Runner [Re: dvw] #1955174
11/21/15 01:11 AM
11/21/15 01:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
Striving for excellence
Kern Dog  Offline OP
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Granite Bay CA
The Road Runner has the original Disc Knuckles it was built with in October 1970.
The offset bushings were installed to have the maximum caster. The front bushing installed as per the MOOG directions with the thin rubber sections close to the engine. The rear bushings are in the opposite way with the thin spots away from the engine.
I am a carpenter, used to inches and fractions. The alignment sheet is in decimals. Still, the camber is something like 0.6 degrees POS on both sides and the caster is less than a degree POS.
I've been wondering why I had such good luck with my car and he has not. I've been under the impression that we have the same knuckle/spindles, but mine are from a 75 Dart. Maybe mine have some camber & caster advantage???

These pictures are of the RIGHT side arm.

UCA OB 5.JPGUCA OB 3.JPG
Last edited by Frankenduster; 11/21/15 01:12 AM.
Re: The ongoing quest for MORE caster, 71 Road Runner [Re: Kern Dog] #1955196
11/21/15 01:42 AM
11/21/15 01:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,847
MI, usa
dvw Offline
master
dvw  Offline
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Posts: 9,847
MI, usa
Your specs indicate the rear of the arm needs to go in further. Is the arm itself contacting the shock tower behind the arm preventing it's full inward movement? Is the lower arm being forced rear ward due to possibly a incorrect stack up on the strut rod bushing?
Doug

Re: The ongoing quest for MORE caster, 71 Road Runner [Re: dvw] #1955226
11/21/15 04:44 AM
11/21/15 04:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
Striving for excellence
Kern Dog  Offline OP
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Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Good questions! I will have to look at the car closer when the owner brings it back.

Re: The ongoing quest for MORE caster, 71 Road Runner [Re: Kern Dog] #1955318
11/21/15 01:13 PM
11/21/15 01:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 667
Los Osos, Ca
C
CKessel Offline
mopar
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C

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Posts: 667
Los Osos, Ca
I think I saw something from either CPP, Mancini or somewhere that had stock looking arms but the ball joint was moved some for improved alignments.


Carl Kessel
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