Taking the 69 Dart to Mason Dixon this w/e....weather looks to cooperate unlike last time.
340 .060 over 10.25-1
Eddy heads
Racer Brown st-21 cam installed at 103
LD-340 intake (wish the M1 was back on)
MSD distributor (18 degree pill all in at 2200 with total at 36)
Dougs 451 headers
750 Holley (80 primary-85 secondary)
3500 converter
4.56 gear
28-8 M&H Racemasters
3300#

12.20

12.00

11:60 give or take a little is not out of the question

12.65

11.70 if you nail it.

Hmmm, full exhaust or open headers? It should go in the high 11's even corked up.

VERY VERY VERY cool car! You should post more pics. (hint, hint)

12.15@111

It has cutouts on it...headers will be open.
I've done everything I can think of with what I have...time will tell...

11.52 ...Good luck have fun be safe

I SAY 12.35 @ 110

Don`t know your elevation but am gonna say 11.80-12.00 @ 112-114.......

IMO the intake is hurting you. The thing should run 11.50ish.

I just don't care for the LD340.

You installed the cam on 103. Is it ground on 105? Did Jim pick the cam?

I agree the intake is hurting it.
This was built a couple years back from 90% parts that I already had.
The cam is about 35-40 years old the degree at 103 was done so on Jim's advice simply because when built the original plan was to stay with the 3.23 gear with a good little 340 and try to just hit the 12's. It's too much cam for the original combo.
I removed the M-1 attributing some of the bottom end laziness to the open plenum design.
It ran pretty good with 3.23's and low and behold a month later dad wanted to put 4.56's in it.
With 4.56's I think the cam would have been better at 112 where it was with the M-1 intake on it.
These are the cards I was dealt...The 3.23's are going back in after this w/e.
He bought a 72 Duster to start working on. The 4.56's and M-1 will be going on it.
He's 76 and hasn't made a pass since 1972...I thought this should be fast enough but he wants to build something faster and not as flashy.
It's cool by me...I don't mind driving this one...

You guys that don't like the LD340 must not have ever played with one on a flow bench. He doesn't say the heads are ported so trust me the intake isn't the issue.

Actually I have had several on the bench. I have also had several at the track. They were slower every sinle time, when everything else was correct.

IMO just more junk to waste time with.

There is aboslutely nothing wrong with that cam. Unless you have OWNED that cam for 30-40 years the grinds have been updated from time to time. While it may be the same lobe part number, Jim updates them. I just wondered if it was ground on a 103 and installed straight up, or if it was ground on a 105 and installed 2* ahead.

My current build (on the stand as we speak) is a Racer Brown cam. It's a newer design lobe. It took multiple phone calls of 30 minutes or more each for us to agree on a grind. Jim has many lobes you never see unless you convince him you need it. I'm going to send him the dyno sheets so he will have a bit more info on this lobe in my application (a daily driver that should run 11.60's and idle at 900).

The cam isn't the issue. I knew someone would come on here and love the LD. It has it's place. Just not on anything I like.

Keep us posted.


BTW...GOOD FOR YOUR DAD. Good on him for getting out there and wanting more. That's cool.

LD340 lover here too.

It's not that I hate the LD 340. I actually like them. They have a good resale value. Buy on the cheep and resell them.

I just think that there is something better, with the right combo. I'll keep selling as many as I can find because I know there is a cult following for them.

An old post on some LD340 testing I did. Keep in mind a STOCK small block Edelbrock head petters out at 243 CFM on a certified bench.



https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/7118476/site_id/1

My comparison in the LD versus the M-1 is that when initially built the M-1 was a dog in the 60 ft and pulled very hard in the higher rpms thru all gears.
Now with the LD it seems to 60' decent and leaves a lot harder but it is noticeably down on power in the higher RPM's.
I guess its not really fair to make that side by side comparison because when the intake was changed is when the cam was advanced from 112 to 103.
Ultimately between both intakes and the differences of where they run the ET between the two may be very close. 60 foot-1/8th and mph would likely be different.
I would like to see it hit the 11.90's but I'm optimistic...
Temps are supposed to be in the 50's so I may get a little help...

As for the cam I have owned it for more than 22 years and can verify that it was bought around 1978 by a previous owner of the engine that was in the car I bought in 1993. I hadn't used it since 94 and the previous owner hardly drove the car after 1986. From 78 to about 84 it did weekend street racing running a best of 11.9x with a 5.13 gear in a 73 Dart Sport in about 1983. When I talked to the previous owner he said it never ran good on top end...when I got it I thought it was lazy on top also. Installed the cam in this motor and it pulled hard on the top and was lazy down low... That's when the cam degree was checked and set at 103 per Jim.

High 11.70 to low 11.80's in decent air.

Kinda puzzled by the carb jetting. Seems a little rich. Is that what it likes?

I CANT WAIT FOR THE VIDIO!!!!

Any chance after all these years of having the cam card??

I'm curious because you said the cam was installed at 112 and now it's at 103. That seems like a big spread, unless it's has a 107-108 Lobe Seperation Angle. If it's ground on a 108 and was installed at 112 that is 48 of retard, plus the 2-4 degrees of retard you get from a timing chain. It's possible that thing was running at 114-116!!!! Holy Crap.

I only ask because in years of dealing with Jim, his standard is almost always installing the cam 2 degrees ahead of LSA. Not always, but mostly. Comp usually goes in 4 ahead, Cam Motion is usually 4 ahead and Mike Jones is usually 3-4 ahead. Kinda a rule of thumb thing for the cams I normally run. In fact, all my old UltraDyne stuff went in 6 degrees ahead. Just how Harold did it. I'm not sure how Bullet is doing it now. So when you go from 112 to 103 that is a HUGE move. That's why I asked if you knew what the LSA actually is.

I like crunching numbers when I can, and yours in particular are interesting. Hope you don't mind all the questions.

For some reason I can't open this thread. Possibly because my computer is J-U-N-K. Can you post the date and maybe I can find it that way.

Cam card is long gone. IIRC Jim thought it may have been ground on a 108 since it was as old as it was. Initially when I talked to him about this he wanted to go at 105. He is one of the guys that said this cam was too big with the gear and converter I was running.
Once he thought about the cam, gear and converter he said to set it at 103 to help it out on the bottom. I had a post on here sometime early in the spring and was discussing what changes to make with the existing parts I had and not buying anything new.
That was when I was running 3.23's. Most here wanted to add gear and then Dad decided he wanted to too.
Ultimately it is what it is now...it's going to run whatever it runs. I am almost positive the first package at 112 and the M-1 would be faster with the 4.56's but I'm not interested in pulling it down to change everything for one trip to the track. It's loaded in the trailer waiting to leave in the am. It's been referred to previously as a show poodle...so be it.
Maybe next year Ill take it down with the 3.23's and see if it will run high 12's...that's all I was ever shooting for...
As for the jet it is fat now...I've put about 6 test hits on it and it likes whats in it much better than the 70-75 that was in it all summer with 3.23's. I'm taking my jets and may pop 75-80 in to try...

I was thinking the same thing

WELLLL? ITS SAT NIGHT.CAMON THE SUSPENSE IS KILLIN ME.

With you driving it... 12.60s

Maybe slower.

He must have towed to Australia to test.

Hope everything`s cool...........I remember when some of you were waiting for my results while "ASSuming S.W.A.T. got me. Curious about the results myself.......

Sorry guys...got back a little late and haven't had a chance to post.
I managed to get 6 passes in before I left.

1st pass was with everything posted above and netted a

1.75 60 foot
7.829 1/8th
12.323 at 108.17 mph

2nd pass I put a borrowed 850 on and the car slowed to a
1.816 60 foot
7.907 1/8th
12.403 at 109.16 mph

3rd pass I put my back-up 750 on that I have never been able to get a hesitation out of at the hit...and yes it stumbled netting a

1.888 60 foot
8.068 1/8th
12.590 at 108.73

Throw the 4th pass out as the loose nut behind the wheel missed the 2-3 shift with the factory column shift..

5th pass I had the first carb back on with the jets changed to 73 primary and 78 secondary. No other changes...

1.754 60 foot
7.867 1/8th
12.354 at 109.13 mph

6th pass was no mechanical changes from above but did try to raise the shift points...I know it stuttered on the 2-3 shift...

1.799 60 foot
7.856 1/8th
12.350 at 109.12

I've made 6 passes in 1985...3 in 1988...1 in June of 2014 and the 6 I made yesterday.

Tach is almost 1500 rpm off of what the ignition box says (when the MSD rev limiter was set at 6500 tach shows 8,000 before stuttering...this was raised to 7200 before going to the track not knowing what I might need in high gear at the stripe)

I can't swear that I made any two given shifts at the same point but on every pass except the last one I tried to shift around 6500.

I look at the different #'s and just

One thing I did notice was the 2-3 shift is a couple cars or so before the 1/8th mile and once I'm in high gear it definitely doesn't pull as hard as it used to before the cam and intake swap.

Depending on the weather I'd like to go back down next w/e with the 3.23's in the way the car is normally driven. I'm curious as to how it runs without the gear and so much dead time in high gear.
There's no one local running similar times to compare sheets to so I'm not sure if it is good anywhere or just average everywhere...

Appreciate any info you have to offer...

3-14-12

Did you go down 7 jet sizes front and back? Maybe try something in the middle. Possibly a fuel delivery problem? Seems to run pretty decent though.

THanks. I'll go back and find it.

guess I was pretty far off cant help but think there is a 11 in there somewhere.

I hate to come out and say this but something is terribly wrong with this combo and the convertor is probably a BIG part of it. You should be flying at that track especially this time of year. I sold my first Duster to a Friend around 35 years ago (3100 plus pounds) and he was into working on dirt track cars and wanted to try drag racing. He wanted a mild combo to make some passes so we took a stock 340 block with stock 10.5-1 cast pistons, stock rods, and crank, added a 484 purple shaft hrdralic cam, portasonic intake, 340 heads with a clean-up polish and 2.02 vales and valve job. He then bought a new 750 carb and installed it out of the box. The car had super stock leaf springs, 4.56 gears, and a 4200 stall turbo Action convertor. In the heat of Summer in PA at the old Keystone Raceway Park he ran a 12.20 on his second pass in the car. I would take a real good look at your 3500 stall convertor and possibly try a new higher stall one.

I agree. The Mph is enough to maybe sneak into the 11's or very low 12's.
That combo should run better than my little 318 times in my signature with iron heads , hydraulic cam and more weight, or at least as good.

Me too...........my junk went 11.80`s-90`s on a little tire at an altitude track but he`ll find it.......Is you car runnin yet?

Let me ad a small story to show you the importance of proper convertor sizing. Here's my Sons combo

70 Duster (3100 pounds)
4.10 gears
28-10 slicks with caltracks
.040 over 360 engine
11.1 flat-top pistons
stock crank
ported Edelbrock heads
ported Victor intake
750 alcohol carb
904 with 5600 stall convertor

His best run with this combo was in the 10.50's

A transmission line broke and fried the transmission so we installed a fully prepped John Cope Racing transmission and one of two convertors I bought from a Moparts member. Next time out the car slowed to a 11.20 with a just freshened convertor that stalled at 4500 rpm. I called and talked to John and he said the difference between a 904 and a 727 is minimal with the PROPER convertor. We pulled the transmission again and installed the other convertor. Next time out it stalled at 5400 and ran 10.50's again and has since run in the 10.40's. These engines LOVE high stall convertors.

NO-ONE be afraid to say what your thinking...I'm asking for help and won't get offended.
I think you hit the nail on the head.
I attempted on the 3rd pass to bring the RPM's up against the converter having a bad feeling my old 750 would stumble.
I looked down at the tach and in trying to tighten everything up knowing that I should be able to get to maybe 3K I noticed it was trying to spin like in the burnout box. I dropped it back down to an idle and left and sure enough it stumbled.
The converter is 36 years old...but not used at all for probably 25 of those years.
Like I said before I used a lot of old stuff I had laying around. I only spent $600.00 on this engine less the heads, headers and distributor. I sent this converter out before using it because of a cracked pump snout...the bolt holes were b!tched up where it bolted to the flex plate also. I got it back in an all new housing for 180.00...I have an idea its nowhere near a 3500 any more. Maybe that explains why I never noticed any slippage with the 3.23's as I thought it may slip some...
To be honest I doubt it gets changed out unless he talks me into 3.91 gears all the time rather than 3.23's. Would going to say 4-4200 be a problem on the street with a 3.91 gear?

Absolutely not and I've seen higher with a good cooler mounted up front. To bad you weren't closer as I would loan you a convertor to make that sucker fly. Surely someone close to you could let you test one

Oh and the 5600 stall that was in Matt's 904 was my transmission builders street convertor but again he knew how to keep one cool

That car is so cool the ET doesn't matter; ) Chances are you're going to bracket race it rather than run heads up anyway. A mid-low 12 second car is a great bracket car. I completely understand wanting to go as fast as possible with the given combo, but your times are nothing to sneeze at. Good luck finding the ET you are after.