finally got my 360 engine block from the machine shop. now, i have performed most of the oil mods (drilled oil feeds from right oil galley to mains to 9/32 and large feeds to 1/2 from sump to right galley). did not do the crossover tube in the valley. planned on plugging the left galley at #1 main per mod directions. my machinest says not to plug off, but drill a .090 hole in the plug to oil lifters. i do want enough oil on the lifter roller bearings, but now i'm unsure what to do. plug it or put a hole in plug?

Sounds like a good idea to me. Instead of cutting oil off entirely to driver side oil galley, you are now restricting how fast it can flow to the driver side, and in effect you are now keeping more oil pressure on the #1 main.

How high do you expect to rev it? That's the $64,000 question.

The valley croosover tube is a waste of time. Don't bother.

If you are running mechanical lifters you should be blocking off all the oil to the drivers side just like you are talking about.

The passenger side SHOULD be bushed, or better said tubed, unless you want to bush the lifter bores. You can buy the stuff to tube the block from any tool seller and have no oil to the lifters.

I just wonder about how much of the 30-40 year old mods (when everyone ran really thick 40/50 wt "racing oil" like I did in the 70's and 80's) really apply when dealing with modern oils? I fully understand priority oiling to the mains but (for example) if you're running pressure fed solid lifters with axle oiling why wouldn't you want oil to both sides of the galley? The #1 main (and Driver's side of the motor) only gets full time oiling if you use a fully grooved main bearing, most of us run 1/2 to 3/4's.

I've become a fan over the years of thinner oil, tighter clearances (on a well machined crank of course) and a cooler to try to maintain moderate oil temperatures. I concentrate mainly on the supply side, big pump large capacity, ported and polished #5 cap and pump, etc. Of course I'm not turning >8500 RPM, more like 7200 max. Additionally, Internal parts are much lighter and lower friction than they were when most of these "bibles" were written as well.

I'm not criticizing any "tried and True" methods mentioned here, I'm just asking the question as to whether the approach can be modified a bit for modern rotating parts and lighter rotating/reciprocating masses flowing in much thinner, yet far more stable and "slick" oils. The Nascar guys have proven that thin oils (delivered very strategically) at lower pressures and stable temperatures can save power and provide longevity in race conditions.

7500 max. I am using half groove main bearings and I did not tube right oil galley. Didn't know that was required with the other oil mods I did.

I've always been told that after 7200, the plug and crossover is a good idea.

Here is a video of a mid 10 run with an "essentially" unmodified oiling system in my 408 solid lifter motor. Hi volume pump, 1/2" pickup running full synthetic 10-40 Royal purple. Oil press. gauge is just to the right of the steering wheel. 200 degree oil @ idle is around 30 psi on the gauge, so the engine had to be a little on the cool side on this run as oil press. @ launch was around 40 psi. End of run was about 7K and oil press. around 90psi.
http://C:\Users\johnc_000\dropbox\file0014.MOV

I've had 2 engines with OE 360 iron cranks. 73-7500 RPM. One was tubed, the second was bushed. The first spun a bearing and broke the rod with a low run count when I didn't pay close enough attention to it. The second one was constantly trying to do the same thing. It would hurt one bearing in 7 or 8 runs, same one everytime. If it was bad we would check a second rod, again same one everytime and usually replace it. Tried a lot of things before we got it reasonably under control and was able to go a season (120-130 runs) without fixing the bottom end. Above about 6800-7000 is when it gets to be a problem and oil system mods are needed, in my experience. Maybe others have had different luck with them.

been running stock magnum block with my 408 stroker turning 8K rpm and only oil mod I have done is a melling HV oil pump and canton bottom feed pick up tube. Bearings looked perfect on every freshen up until I had a bad rod that was missed by local shop spin a bearing at idle in my driveway. Also running MRL performance solid roller lifters.

The oil will only be sent to the rollers if the lifters are designed to do that. A "normal" solid roller does not have pressurized oil feed to the roller. If you have the std ones, the rollers are splash fed - from the crankcase primarilly. The bodies are oiled by drainback. There is no reason to get oil to them unless they are designed for it. Feed the bearings.

very good points. guess i'll just plug it up.

not able to open your vid.

ran amsoil 15/50 in the past. would like to run a lighter oil in this combo.

I would block the pass gallery being fed from the front & use the crossover. evidently they figured out that not feeding the pass gallery from the front would keep the psi/vol high enough cuz it dead ends down there as opposed to flowing on to the pass gallery as to not starve the front mains/rods from that reduction in volume. You might go to www.moparchat.com then scroll down to & click on "circle track chat" then peruse Sanborns' oiling mods that are in a sticky at the top of the page (its a long read) if you ain't already then go to FABO & read Guitar Jones' oiling mods (alot overlaps)

i disagree with one thing moper, the lifter bodies are oiled by the main oil galley their setting in, thats why i'm afraid of shutting the oil off. dont want a stuck lifter. another thing i was thinking of is when people tube the right galley, they drill a small hole in the tube at each lifter for oil. if i plug the left galley i'm shutting off all the oil to that lifter bank.

I just want to jot this down for the "folks playing along at home" that may have seen this topic 100 times but don't really have a basic understanding of the whats and whys.

The main reason for the tube in the pass galley (or alternatively bushing the individual lifter bores) is to guarantee priority oil from the pump discharge gets routed first all the mains...and at (more or less) equal pressure....Primarily in the event of a lifter leaving the bore due to valvetrain failiure. A "normally" functioning SBM oil system does the same thing under normal conditions but will deliver proportionally less oil volume due to the 8 parallel oil "leaks" occurring at each lifter bore.

The logic behind plugging the #1 Main lifter galley feed (regardless of whether you tube the pass galley) downstram of the main is to effectively cut in half the number of lifter bleeds ( from 16 lifters down to 8 volume drops) in the circuit that feeds the main bearings, again this ensures more "priority" oiling (volume and additional pressure) is available to the Main bearings. The bypass is exactly that, it bridges the gap between the left and right galleys once you plug the #1 main passage. If you do not plug or significantly restrict the #1 it doesn't really do much under normal running conditions. Plugging #1 also ensures all the oil to the #1 bearing has to leak through the bearing itself, not run to the path of least resistance (up the galley) at higher RPMs.

Enlarging the main passages from the galley increases the supply 'charge' of oil to the mains but does not necessarily increase the flow due mainly to the limits of the bearing orifice itself and at least partially design of the bearing shells (groove width, depth and surface area).

All are inter-related and a decent understanding of series and parallel circuit flow is really essential for understanding the cause and effect.

How much is adequate, how much is too much and how much is "overkill" I suppose what's being debated.

I wrote this quick so don't score me too harshly, lol

No problem. You're the builder so d what you feel is appropriate. When I run a solid roller I always bush the bores. When I bush a lifter bore on a street rather than race engine I add a small hole in the bushing to make sure the body gets oil during idle times when there's not a lot of drainback or splash. Many other builders don't. IMO on a racing engine this is not necesary. That's because there is very little need for oil on the lifter body beyond what's running past and being flung around. So yes - the bodies are oiled by the galleys. But no - it's not necessary and in terms of oil control and keeping it where it's really needed (bearings) that type of oiling is a liability.
There are many ways to skin the same cat here, and some that wouldn't worry about it anyway.

just want to add that Sanborn's write-up on his circle track mods is one of the very best technical posts I've ever read.

Also I suppose adding the bypass without the #1 galley restriction would add some 'backpressure' or resistance to the oil exiting the #1 main so it might actually aid flow to that bearing. Had to think about that one a minute.

The ONLY thing that oil does is feed the hydraulic part of the lifter. If you are using FT solid lifters or solid roller lifters they lube from splash.

Again, that crossover tube doesn't do anything.

The Chrysler oiling system was the same from 61-62 (somewhere around there I'd have to look it up for sure but the Poly's are virtually the same)onward and was the same until the las LA's were produced. The biggest sin is the oil timing to the crank is WRONG and it oils the lifters FIRST. The latter is relatively simple to fix, the former not nearly so much.

So 99% of what is done on the PRESSURE side of the pump is USELESS. Make your inlet as big as possible, Block ALL moil to the lifter bodies if you are NOT using hydraulic lifters and keep hot idle oil pressure at no less the 40 psi at idle. Always use full groove mains to keep oil going to the rods all the time.

If you want to discuss small block wet sump oiling is a 600 hp plus engine at 8000 rpm plus, well that a whole 'nuther cat, and very few dudes actually do it.

As for oil viscosity...way over blown. There is very little to be had for 99% of the guys who ain't running Comp or Pro Stock. The engine builder SHOULD set clearances accordingly. FWIW on a typical Chrylser small block I run .002 on the rods and .0022-.0024 on the mains. That's with a 30 or 40 grade oil. If you go to a lighter grade oil, then they get a bit tighter. If you think you want to zip it up past 7500 rpm, I add a couple of tenths to it but's that's about as loose as it gets.

I had looked at it in the past, but I went back and re-read the Sanborn post. I did much of what he did, maybe not exactly the same way, but it accomplished the same thing. I was using a solid roller and bushed the bores. I also cut the oil to the left galley with a plug in the passage under the front main bearing. No crossover, no oil in the left galley. Sanborn mentions his engine oiled the top end through the pushrods, just like your Magnum, because of the T&Ds. We used Cranes and initially oiled the heads as originally designed through the passages from the 2 and 4 cam journals.

When we did the oil system, we took the oiling for the head away from the cam journals and restricted the amount of oil going to the heads. All of the oil in the right galley went to the crank and stayed on the crank with none being bled off to do something else, except for some lube for the cam bearings. We went from fixing a rod bearing every 7 or 8 runs to being able to run a full season without taking the pan off.

I have lots of street miles on a solid roller setup with the oil blocked to the lifters. No issues to date, probably 10,000 or more miles this way. The cams I have run are grooved so the rockers oil full time and provide lots of drainback which I think is a plus.

ok, you guys know way more than i about these engines. i'v only built 3 and this will be #4. thanks for all your input here. originaly i thought maybe instead of totally blocking left galley i would drill a .060" hole in the plug just to get enough oil when street driving,which wont be much street driving. i have restricted oil to the rocker shaft to .060" each side since a spraybar oil rockers. my cam also full time oils. so looks like i will be fine blocking left oil galley which i will do. thanks again

I'd give you an A.

Not to be disrepectful, but tubing the oil gallery or bushing the lifters bore does not make it priority oiling. The oil still goes all the way up to the lifters and back down to the mains. Priority oiling will always oil the mains first.

That said, if you are not running a hydro lifter you should be blocking off ALL the oil to the lifters.

The only other exception to that rule is pushrod oiling. Then you need some oil at the lifters.

I'm with you as the circuit is designed for the LA, but if you are preventing oil going to the lifters (with the tube) the next path (albeit not a 'direct' path) for the oil becomes the Galley/web passage to the Mains....so with the mods we are now making....the mains become the 'Priority' (i.e., first in line) route by blocking (or at least obstructing) the path to the lifters. Also as important is that the rod bearings now become second (not third in line) through the crank to rod jounal passages. It's not a direct path, but it is as direct (priority as we can practically modify it to be...short of recasting the block. I just tried to put it in simpler terms so that some Moparts members (who may not otherwise understand) can get a hold of what we're speaking of. It's all good.

Also important to point out that since the engine designers never envisioned these 360 max cube motors to be turning 8000 rpm, there was nothing really wrong with the way they routed the oil. Tappet noise and (lash free) ease of maintenance were priorities as was near silent under hood noise...even at cold start-ups.

I go along with splash/drip oiling being sufficient for solids and most solid roller lifters....But I believe that latest design solid rollers (that do have internal oil passages) that direct oil feed the roller axles (such as the MRL's) DO benefit from lifter galley (direct pressure) oiling. My MRL's are providing pushrod oiling on my 414, I am not tubed/bushed but I have restricted the oil passages in the heads to the shafts with bushings that only allow (at best) .002 of clearance in the shaft for minimal oil to pass through. works great on my motor with the big Milodon pump and Dragster pan, I wouldn't run it with a conventional pump and pan though... and I'm only turning 7000-7200.

I get you SW and how you are defining "priority". It makes sense. Just pointing out that what we are calling priority is not the same as what the "other" brands are calling it, since their stuff has the oil go directly to the mains and then to the cam. In reality, an old engineering friend told me that since the sytem is always "loaded" once pressure occurs, it really makes no difference that the oil has to go up the block, turn horizontal, move forward and then turn 90*'s down to get to the mains. If you skipped all that, you would have a few less 90's in the system.

I'm not sure, but if I were going to do pushrod oiling that it might not be better to tube the passenger side and restrict the drivers side some. I would think that drilling a small .080 hole in the tube (maybe even as small as .0625) would help control the leaks around the lifters. If the bores were bushed, you could do the same to both sides.

I was stunned by how much oil leaks past the lifters. At 45 lbs of pressure they leak like a sieve. I didn't have a very good testing method but just turning the engine at cranking speed made the leaks even worse. The tube or bushing them dried it up by about 75%.

That's why I get uptight about oil control in these things. If you actually saw how much got past the liftes more guys would be trying to dry it up (I would think...but maybe not).

And you are correct about the OE engineering and RPM's. The small amount of degrees the oil timing is off has ZERO effect on performance until you to 6000-6500. After that, full groove mains are a MUST (although I know some who don't use them and get lucky...it's not a chevvie). at 7500 you need to make sure the pickup have enough area (most don't). At about 8200 the oiling timing issue must be addressed. I know guys who paid to have it fixed in the crank, but those had some issues. If you want reliable oiling over 8000 you have to correct the oil timing or you will kill number 3 and 4 rod bearings. If you fix it, they will go to 10,000 plus.

That of course, is not considering valve train issues.

Good discussion, like the old Moparts days.

In my own case, I think I'm gonna let sleeping dogs lie, the motor runs GREAT and is super reliable, last 3 times to the track I only lift the hood to help it cool a little quicker.

That Milo pump and pan has plenty of capacity and volume so the leaking doesn't seem to bother anything. When I first did this I was only getting 42 psi at 6000, too low but I found the problem was the restrictive fittings going in and out of the Freightliner cooler...But the Bearings looked like new. I ported the fittings to 7/16" ID and pressure went right back up. I really like running the remote filter and big cooler with the 10/30 Synthetic probably have close to 10 quarts in the system and still at least 60psi at the stripe at 7K. I'd like to at least restrict the #1 galley passage...but I'm not willing to pull the crank out to do it. The #2/#4 shaft/stud bushing restrictors upped the pressure 6-8 psi at the stripe and I'm still getting a little oil inside the shaft/rocker fulcrum (where I don't think pushrod oiling does an adequate job alone).

Just like with electricity, any change (and specifically WHERE in the circuit that change occurs) along the line to a series/parallel flow has an effect on the entire system