|
Re: new Challenger?
[Re: kmfdm]
#18973
11/24/05 11:27 AM
11/24/05 11:27 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,062
Fort DODGE, Ioway
origcharger
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,062
Fort DODGE, Ioway
|
With an anticipated production of 5,000 to 10,000 units it will likely be sometime before the buyer of modest means is able to get his hands on one.
MOPARTS ALERT!: Chris Pugh aka gabodyman of Dalton, Georgia, cashed my $140 money order on 4-16-02 never sent parts. On 3-19-07 he agreed to return my money; "april 9, it will be in the mail by that date""will do as promised. chris" Still no parts and no money!
|
|
|
Re: new Challenger?
[Re: kmfdm]
#18975
11/24/05 11:47 AM
11/24/05 11:47 AM
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,437
The Naughty Spot
BirdinPieces
master
|
master
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,437
The Naughty Spot
|
Quote:
In regards to price remember that there is not a reason for the car to be priced anymore than any of the current LX platform cars. Demand? Sure that's a good reason but remember that DCX has sold about twice the amount of 300s as originally expected and the price has not changed.
Also, unlike the Viper (which is mostly hand built and shares a platform with nothing) the Challenger wont cost anymore to build than a Charger.
I was thinking that they could make more per car. The 300 is a bread and butter car, so you wouldnt want to price it too high. In this case, it is a small addition to the LX line, so if they only made a few and priced them slightly higher, telling people it is a limited production, people will pay a little more for the car. If the orders really start piling in, they could ramp up production like they did with the PT Cruiser. Later on they could give rebates when demand slowed down. If they dont get a lot of orders, they only planned on making a few anyway.
Remember when people were paying WAY over sticker on other cars when they were first introduced because they HAD to have one or they HAD to be the first one in the area to have one? I was thinking that they were playing on that scenario a little bit.
I hope that explains my goofy train of thought... 
The Bird
Some are wise, and some are otherwise...
Say what you want, but in the end, it is what it is...
|
|
|
Re: new Challenger?
[Re: kmfdm]
#18976
11/24/05 11:55 AM
11/24/05 11:55 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,062
Fort DODGE, Ioway
origcharger
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,062
Fort DODGE, Ioway
|
Quote:
Quote:
With an anticipated production of 5,000 to 10,000 units it will likely be sometime before the buyer of modest means is able to get his hands on one.
and why is that?????????????
In a nutshell, supply and demand.
MOPARTS ALERT!: Chris Pugh aka gabodyman of Dalton, Georgia, cashed my $140 money order on 4-16-02 never sent parts. On 3-19-07 he agreed to return my money; "april 9, it will be in the mail by that date""will do as promised. chris" Still no parts and no money!
|
|
|
Re: new Challenger?
[Re: BirdinPieces]
#18977
11/24/05 11:59 AM
11/24/05 11:59 AM
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,281
wisconsin
kmfdm
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,281
wisconsin
|
Quote:
Quote:
In regards to price remember that there is not a reason for the car to be priced anymore than any of the current LX platform cars. Demand? Sure that's a good reason but remember that DCX has sold about twice the amount of 300s as originally expected and the price has not changed.
Also, unlike the Viper (which is mostly hand built and shares a platform with nothing) the Challenger wont cost anymore to build than a Charger.
I was thinking that they could make more per car. The 300 is a bread and butter car, so you wouldnt want to price it too high. In this case, it is a small addition to the LX line, so if they only made a few and priced them slightly higher, telling people it is a limited production, people will pay a little more for the car. If the orders really start piling in, they could ramp up production like they did with the PT Cruiser. Later on they could give rebates when demand slowed down. If they dont get a lot of orders, they only planned on making a few anyway.
Remember when people were paying WAY over sticker on other cars when they were first introduced because they HAD to have one or they HAD to be the first one in the area to have one? I was thinking that they were playing on that scenario a little bit.
I hope that explains my goofy train of thought...
The 300 is bread and butter, but that doesn't mean it costs less to produce. Could DCX decide to jack the price up to make a lot of profit per car? Sure. But I doubt they want to have their own version of the new GTO. I think of it this way, does it make more sense to sell 7,000 cars at $5000 profit or 25,000 cars at $3000 profit? Remember that the production number released isn't something set in stone. Plus, rebates later on are NOT how DCX wants to sell cars. That means little profit later on. Not good for the company in the long run. I will take bets now and say that the Challenger will NOT cost anymore than a similarly equipped Charger. maybe if enough people call my bet, I can get a Challenger for free!!! 
74 Dart Sport
|
|
|
Re: new Challenger?
[Re: kmfdm]
#18979
11/24/05 12:14 PM
11/24/05 12:14 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,304
WI
RestoRick
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,304
WI
|
Yes, that production number sounds WAY low... The hot selling new mustang is being produced in limited numbers (I THINK 100K units?)... the dealers are screaming. They have a hot selling car that they can't get and have actually stopped taking orders for GT's at most dealers. My friend who has a Ford store tells me he's been told Ford is limiting production to keep demand high. He told them that the current production is LOWER than Mustangs built in 1966 era!! Shooting themselves in the foot I believe. IMO..this is a golden opportunity for DC to introduce a competitive model and produce it in adequate supply. We have diehard Mopar guys buying FORD Mustangs... and people getting tired of not being able to get them too... seems like a no-brainer!! Rick 
|
|
|
Re: new Challenger?
[Re: RestoRick]
#18980
11/24/05 12:20 PM
11/24/05 12:20 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
He told them that the current production is LOWER than Mustangs built in 1966 era!!
That doesnt surprise me since they sold about a million by that time. I agree, Challenger costs roughly the same as the Stang and Charger. I think the low number is because they dont wanna shoot too high in a market that is pretty risky. The Mustang aside, the 2 door RWD V8 market is small
Last edited by StrokedGT; 11/24/05 12:21 PM.
|
|
|
Re: new Challenger?
[Re: kmfdm]
#18981
11/24/05 12:27 PM
11/24/05 12:27 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,437
The Naughty Spot
BirdinPieces
master
|
master
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,437
The Naughty Spot
|
Quote:
The 300 is bread and butter, but that doesn't mean it costs less to produce. Could DCX decide to jack the price up to make a lot of profit per car? Sure. But I doubt they want to have their own version of the new GTO. I think of it this way, does it make more sense to sell 7,000 cars at $5000 profit or 25,000 cars at $3000 profit? Remember that the production number released isn't something set in stone. Plus, rebates later on are NOT how DCX wants to sell cars. That means little profit later on. Not good for the company in the long run. I will take bets now and say that the Challenger will NOT cost anymore than a similarly equipped Charger. maybe if enough people call my bet, I can get a Challenger for free!!!
I'm not talking about cost of production. I'm saying that if the supply is perceived by the customer to be small, people will spend an extra 2k to get the car they want. So for the limited production, if they make 5k vs. 3k per car, they are golden. If later they give a 2k rebate or mark it down the following year, they still make the original 3k just like the markup of the 300(in this example). If they see a huge demand at the car shows, I could see them playing this inital "limited" production to the hilt.
In the case of the GTO, I think two mistakes were made. They marked the car up too much(way more than 2k) and they misread the market for the perceived demand. Not to mention it looked like a jellybean. Did they ever mention whether or not it was going to be a limited production?
The Bird
Some are wise, and some are otherwise...
Say what you want, but in the end, it is what it is...
|
|
|
Re: new Challenger?
[Re: kmfdm]
#18982
11/24/05 12:47 PM
11/24/05 12:47 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
With an anticipated production of 5,000 to 10,000 units it will likely be sometime before the buyer of modest means is able to get his hands on one.
and why is that?????????????
In a nutshell, supply and demand.
Please find me an example of a car that this applies to. Dealer markups don't count.
Dealer markups should count quite alot, since they can and do keep people from being able to afford a new car.
|
|
|
Re: new Challenger?
[Re: BirdinPieces]
#18983
11/24/05 12:58 PM
11/24/05 12:58 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,281
wisconsin
kmfdm
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,281
wisconsin
|
the one thing that i think we really need to remember is that we're talking about profits in the the 3k range or so for if you are right, 10,000 cars. What's 30mil to a company as big as DCX? It makes more sense to sell more cars so you can sell more parts later.
DCX also knows that the people this car is marketed for wont buy it if it costs too much.
Also, I cant recall if someone else mentioned this here, but DCX loves playing word games with their press releases. So when they say 5-10k a year, they might be talking only about the SRT-8 version. If you sell 10k SRT-8's, 25k R/T's, and 30K V-6's, you would be right in line with the production numbers they were quoted on a few months ago. A little over half of them with Hemis seems to sound about right I say.
Last edited by kmfdm; 11/24/05 01:23 PM.
74 Dart Sport
|
|
|
Re: new Challenger?
#18984
11/24/05 01:04 PM
11/24/05 01:04 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,281
wisconsin
kmfdm
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,281
wisconsin
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
With an anticipated production of 5,000 to 10,000 units it will likely be sometime before the buyer of modest means is able to get his hands on one.
and why is that?????????????
In a nutshell, supply and demand.
Please find me an example of a car that this applies to. Dealer markups don't count.
Dealer markups should count quite alot, since they can and do keep people from being able to afford a new car.
They don't count because the factory doesnt have any control over it. Any shady dealer can ask for 10k over sticker on any car, but that's dealer profit, not DCX profit. For example, if I'm making widgets and sell them to ABC store for $5 a piece and suggest they sell them for $7 a piece, but they decide to sell them, for $12, i really dont care because I've already made my money. I can't go back and demand more money for product I already sold to a "dealer". The cost of the car has more alot ore to do with the manufacturer than the dealer. If someone is silly enough to pay MORE than sticker price than they deserve to get screwed.
And yes, dealer mark ups can and will keep people from buying a car, but if nobody is buying at the price they marked it up to, the price comes back down to sticker. Obviously dealer mark ups dont happen very much, and when they do, it's onl for a short time.
Last edited by kmfdm; 11/24/05 01:06 PM.
74 Dart Sport
|
|
|
Re: new Challenger?
[Re: kmfdm]
#18985
11/24/05 01:12 PM
11/24/05 01:12 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,437
The Naughty Spot
BirdinPieces
master
|
master
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,437
The Naughty Spot
|
Quote:
the one thing that i think we really need to remember is that we're talking about profits in the the 3k range or so for if you are right, 10,000 cars. What's 30k to a company as big as DCX? It makes more sense to sell more cars so you can sell more parts later.
You mean 30,000K or 30 mil. If you add 2k per car that is 50 mil. That is a lot to a car companies bottom line. I am sure they know they cant mark it up too much, but if they did just a little(not as much as the GTO)they would try to get away with it if it looks like they will get a high demand.
Granted all these numbers are just an example, but think of it this way. Would you buy a good looking "limited" production Hemi 2dr coupe that costs 2-3k more than a Mustang? I would absolutely. Would you if it was a regular production car? Maybe not...
The Bird
Some are wise, and some are otherwise...
Say what you want, but in the end, it is what it is...
|
|
|
Re: new Challenger?
[Re: BirdinPieces]
#18986
11/24/05 01:20 PM
11/24/05 01:20 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,281
wisconsin
kmfdm
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,281
wisconsin
|
Quote:
Quote:
the one thing that i think we really need to remember is that we're talking about profits in the the 3k range or so for if you are right, 10,000 cars. What's 30k to a company as big as DCX? It makes more sense to sell more cars so you can sell more parts later.
You mean 30,000K or 30 mil. If you add 2k per car that is 50 mil. That is a lot to a car companies bottom line. I am sure they know they cant mark it up too much, but if they did just a little(not as much as the GTO)they would try to get away with it if it looks like they will get a high demand.
Granted all these numbers are just an example, but think of it this way. Would you buy a good looking "limited" production Hemi 2dr coupe that costs 2-3k more than a Mustang? I would absolutely. Would you if it was a regular production car? Maybe not...
oops, yeah i meant to compare whats 30 million versus 20 million for them. Got carried away with all the k's i was using. time to go back and edit. My point was that they will make even more if they sell twice as many for a few thousand less.
Last edited by kmfdm; 11/24/05 01:21 PM.
74 Dart Sport
|
|
|
Re: new Challenger?
[Re: BirdinPieces]
#18987
11/24/05 01:27 PM
11/24/05 01:27 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,281
wisconsin
kmfdm
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,281
wisconsin
|
Quote:
Quote:
the one thing that i think we really need to remember is that we're talking about profits in the the 3k range or so for if you are right, 10,000 cars. What's 30k to a company as big as DCX? It makes more sense to sell more cars so you can sell more parts later.
You mean 30,000K or 30 mil. If you add 2k per car that is 50 mil. That is a lot to a car companies bottom line. I am sure they know they cant mark it up too much, but if they did just a little(not as much as the GTO)they would try to get away with it if it looks like they will get a high demand.
Granted all these numbers are just an example, but think of it this way. Would you buy a good looking "limited" production Hemi 2dr coupe that costs 2-3k more than a Mustang? I would absolutely. Would you if it was a regular production car? Maybe not...
selling 10k a year for 5k profit will get you 50mil, but 25k a year at 3k profit will get you 75mil. I know for me that buying a car that costs $28,000 vs. $30,000 is a huge factor, especially if I know that i can get it's direct competitor (mustang) for $26,000.
74 Dart Sport
|
|
|
Re: new Challenger?
[Re: kmfdm]
#18991
11/24/05 03:12 PM
11/24/05 03:12 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,509
Polson, MT
IronYuppie
super gas
|
super gas
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,509
Polson, MT
|
Underneath the sheetmetal, the Charger is essentially identical to the 300 and Magnum so there is significant cost savings by using all of the existing tooling, jigs, and various other components. A new chassis would have to be engineered, tested, and then adapted to the assembly line, or a special line would have to be created. If the Challenger is to be the first of the LY platform (more flexible than the LX, i.e. wheelbase, doors, transmission type), then these added costs are more of an investment for the new cars coming down the road. But on its own, a car with these changes would cost more than what went into the Charger.
|
|
|
|
|
LincBomb LS. Maybe I get him to hold off for a few years before going for a new car.