Re: Broke the rocker stand stud and T&D rocker shaft.
[Re: dvw]
#1887959
08/09/15 12:10 PM
08/09/15 12:10 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Shaft broke because the stud broke. I'm not sure what grade a Dorman stud is but I don't use them for anything significant. You can buy individual studs directly from ARP. Tell them what size you want. My paired T&D's had 2 studs on each mounting bridge that I thought should be longer. Bought new ones from ARP, reasonable. Doug I agree the stud went first... not sure if it was loose or just weak
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Re: Broke the rocker stand stud and T&D rocker shaft.
[Re: lewtot184]
#1888020
08/09/15 01:45 PM
08/09/15 01:45 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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to my knowledge all those hardware/auto store studs are grade 5. 99% of the bolts in my car are grade 8 or above except for some sheet metal screws
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Re: Broke the rocker stand stud and T&D rocker shaft.
[Re: Chris'sBarracuda]
#1888021
08/09/15 01:46 PM
08/09/15 01:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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[quote=Chris'sBarracuda] When I had my Stage 6's I had rocker issues until I added these and changed the studs to 7/16" Another stage 6... pulled the threads, bent broke the shaft. the heads weren't drilled deep enough for a longer bolt/ more thread engagement. Fixed it the same way as Chris.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: Broke the rocker stand stud and T&D rocker shaft.
[Re: J_BODY]
#1888090
08/09/15 03:32 PM
08/09/15 03:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,173 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,173
PA.
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With race cars after they hit a certain point you can spend a lot of money hopefully once the first time or do it on the cheap MANY times. The choice is yours.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Broke the rocker stand stud and T&D rocker shaft.
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1888592
08/10/15 04:28 AM
08/10/15 04:28 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
OP
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OP
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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When I ordered the studs from Summit, they did not have a 3" long ARP, and the Dorman studs I used are advertised as Grade 8? I even checked their catalog.
These were torqued to 35ft/lbs, do you think I need more pre-load? ARP shows 45 ft/lbs for 3/8", 180,000 psi bolts?
I did order some ARP studs to replace these.
The heads have already been modified with 3/4" long timesert thread inserts, after milling the stock shafts off and using the Max wedge type rocker stands/hold downs. I'm not sure how I could goto 7/16" with the reduced diameter T&D shafts and have the rockers oil through the rocker shaft?
How much would it cost to have ARP make some custom studs???
FWIW, I ordered these: ARP-AJ3000-5B Summit has the material listed wrong as 4037?
This is the description from ARP: Stud, 8740 Chromoly, Black Oxide, 3/8-16 in. Base Thread, 3/8-24 in. Top Thread, 3.0 in. Length, Each
These ARP individual studs are made from 8740 chromoly steel with 190,000 psi tensile strength. They are precision centerless-ground and thread-rolled to Mil-S-8879 specs and have a black oxide finish. A nut and washer are sold separately.
Last edited by 451Mopar; 08/10/15 04:50 AM.
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Re: Broke the rocker stand stud and T&D rocker shaft.
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1889474
08/11/15 01:39 PM
08/11/15 01:39 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561 USA
B3RE
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
USA
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Can you be certain valvetrain instability didn't break the stud and the shaft?
Mike Beachel
I didn't write the rules of math nor create the laws of physics, I am just bound by them.
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Re: Broke the rocker stand stud and T&D rocker shaft.
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1890266
08/12/15 02:30 PM
08/12/15 02:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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... or is there a problem running about 770+ open spring pressures on these Victor heads? Got me, but that's some serious spring pressure for a street-driven car IMHO. I'm only going to be running about 600#s open and am already concerned if I'll encounter any shaft mounting issues w/ my Victors.
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Re: Broke the rocker stand stud and T&D rocker shaft.
[Re: BradH]
#1890397
08/12/15 05:39 PM
08/12/15 05:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667 Arizona
Chris'sBarracuda
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
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Better check w/ T&D on how much torque they want to see used w/ their shafts. Just because ARP says 50#s doesn't mean the shafts can stand up to that much w/o getting "squished" out of round at the mounting points. He uses rocker stands. Shouldn't apply. Chris. .
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Re: Broke the rocker stand stud and T&D rocker shaft.
[Re: Chris'sBarracuda]
#1890443
08/12/15 06:38 PM
08/12/15 06:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Better check w/ T&D on how much torque they want to see used w/ their shafts. Just because ARP says 50#s doesn't mean the shafts can stand up to that much w/o getting "squished" out of round at the mounting points. He uses rocker stands. Shouldn't apply. You don't think those aluminum stands will distort if torqued too much? Maybe he needs to check w/ the maker of the stands on how they think 50#s will work out. You may be 100% right, but having ovaled good shafts using nice steel hold-downs and far less torque, I'm a lil' suspect.
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Re: Broke the rocker stand stud and T&D rocker shaft.
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1890484
08/12/15 07:48 PM
08/12/15 07:48 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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OP
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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I doubt I will be using 50 ft/lbs, but I'm not too worried about getting the shaft out of round. These shafts are smaller diameter and thick material when compared to the stock sized rocker shafts, but this also presents a different issue relating to oiling through the rocker shaft. The three inner studs have a reduced diameter so oil can flow around them, so they will have to be torqued to a lower setting. It is interesting none of those broke?
I E-Mailed Jesel to see what they have, and this is their reply:
"We do a pro series rocker kit for that head. There is machining required. The factory style cast in rocker shaft pedestals have to be removed for our steel stand to bolt down to the head. Then our shaft bolts to our steel stand. The rocker kit costs $1700.00 and takes about 7-10 days to build to your desired ratio.
Jon Fodor JESEL, Inc. 732-901-1800 xt. 161 732-901-6777 fax jonf@jesel.com"
For someone thinking of using these heads and looking for a rocker system, the Jesel setup may be the way to go? The T&D system is almost $1200, then I spent another $200+ on the aluminum stands and hardware, so their rocker kit would not be much more than what I already have in my T&D setup?
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