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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: Spartan040]
#1872044
07/17/15 12:13 AM
07/17/15 12:13 AM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 25
Illinois
2011GrabberGT
member
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member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 25
Illinois
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The MS3X has ALL of the features listed above and is not even half of the cost of the MS3 Pro. The ONLY thing the Pro has on the 3 is it is fully assembled (you can get a MS3X assembled too for far less) and it is in a sealed case. I run MS3X and have more features and inputs/outputs than I can possibly utilize, and I am running dual wide bands, dual knock sensors, sequential fuel/spark, launch control, closed loop idle, a multitude of output LED's, tach output, fuel pressure sensor, oil pressure sensor, A/C control, and probably a few other things I cannot remember. And I still have unused channels! I'm also using it to talk to an MS2 based TCM via CAN for integrated shift control. Heck, they both even use the same software. So unless you need a water submersible super tough ECU for an off road vehicle, a V12 engine, or really like shiny boxes and have a lot of disposable income, there is no reason to get a Pro. A fully assembled MS3X starts at $660 minus the harness. If you want knock control and a harness add another $150. If you can solder, save yourself another couple hundred and assemble it yourself like I did. The MS3X and Pro both blow the Holley system out of the water with the ridiculous amount of features and flexibility they offer, but in all reality most people probably won't even be able to utilize half of it. If you want a basic port injection set up, you can even use an MS1 or MS2 with great results. Here's my write up with Megasquirt if anybody is interested.... http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=100689.45
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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: Spartan040]
#1872096
07/17/15 01:12 AM
07/17/15 01:12 AM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 25
Illinois
2011GrabberGT
member
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member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 25
Illinois
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I've looked at the hardware and software features, and while hardware they can both be similar (even though the MS can be setup to run on almost anything), I did not see nearly as much on the software side with the Holley. If I am wrong, feel free to correct me instead of getting emotional. MS3X documentation for reference: http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/Megasquirt3_TunerStudio_MS_Lite_Reference-1.4.pdfI'd love to see the documentation I missed; I've been through the Holley website and scoured the dozens of documents they have on the systems.
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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: 2011GrabberGT]
#1872151
07/17/15 02:54 AM
07/17/15 02:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,307
BC, Canada
Black_Bee
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,307
BC, Canada
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The MS3X has ALL of the features listed above and is not even half of the cost of the MS3 Pro. The ONLY thing the Pro has on the 3 is it is fully assembled (you can get a MS3X assembled too for far less) and it is in a sealed case. I run MS3X and have more features and inputs/outputs than I can possibly utilize, and I am running dual wide bands, dual knock sensors, sequential fuel/spark, launch control, closed loop idle, a multitude of output LED's, tach output, fuel pressure sensor, oil pressure sensor, A/C control, and probably a few other things I cannot remember. And I still have unused channels! I'm also using it to talk to an MS2 based TCM via CAN for integrated shift control. Heck, they both even use the same software. So unless you need a water submersible super tough ECU for an off road vehicle, a V12 engine, or really like shiny boxes and have a lot of disposable income, there is no reason to get a Pro. A fully assembled MS3X starts at $660 minus the harness. If you want knock control and a harness add another $150. If you can solder, save yourself another couple hundred and assemble it yourself like I did. The MS3X and Pro both blow the Holley system out of the water with the ridiculous amount of features and flexibility they offer, but in all reality most people probably won't even be able to utilize half of it. If you want a basic port injection set up, you can even use an MS1 or MS2 with great results. Here's my write up with Megasquirt if anybody is interested.... http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=100689.45 I'm not knocking MS, but you do need to add another $200 or so to MS3 to get wideband controller... and now you are pretty darn close to that Holley price. 
Paul
'69 Super Bee 383 EFI Turbo
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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: Black_Bee]
#1872175
07/17/15 05:52 AM
07/17/15 05:52 AM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 553
Sac, CA, USA
ntstlgl1970
mopar
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mopar
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 553
Sac, CA, USA
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Something to consider is that the MS3x and MS3 pro won't drive non-logic controlled coils without add on boxes (gen III hemi) so add another $150 or more for those. The MS3 gold box does, but again, that is closer to the holley controller in price. The MS3x could be used for trans control by itself, since it already is setup to control a lock up converter, if the hardware/firmware (I'm guessing) had a higher output frequency and 3 parameters for the pwm generic outputs. As it is now, I have to run a GPIO box via can to run the governor solenoid on my 46RE trans. Using either the GPIO or a MS2 or microsquirt to run the trans obviously adds more cost to the build. I think Monte mentioned that one of the holley controllers can run the trans without an add on box.
A good friend of mine is converting his early falcon 302/man trans car to efi, but since he isn't really into the whole tuning thing we went with a complete FAST system on that car, if the new holley systems were out back when we were deciding on the plan, it would have been considered.
Oh, and before I forget, one of the previous posts mentioned a system based on the GM LS controller - if someone was to go that route, avoid getting a controller out of a wrecking yard. If the car the controller came from was in an accident that deployed the airbags, the controller will be locked in limp mode and there is no way to reset it (hp tuners/dealership can't reset it) - you have to replace the controller - DAHIK
Last edited by ntstlgl1970; 07/17/15 05:54 AM.
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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: Spartan040]
#1872198
07/17/15 09:29 AM
07/17/15 09:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,091
Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,091
Tulsa OK
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I wanted the Holley stuff really bad, I fell in love with it when Roadkill did the engine swap and EFI conversion at PRI awhile back.
I quickly crapped my pants as I added up parts, I wanted room to grow so I wanted the top system. I think(summit) $1800 gets you the top ECU, then you have to add in cost for Different Harnesses etc. I cried a little bit and kind of forgot about it.
Then came Redmist with his MS3X build and it got my wheels turning. It wasn't long before I bought the MS3X kit and proceeded to assemble it myself. It was pretty fun and my son was just a few months old so I was always home and it was easy to work on during his many naps. It for sure took longer, and it was more work, but I had lots more time than I had money at the time(who ever has both?) and I really enjoyed building it.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: Spartan040]
#1872359
07/17/15 04:00 PM
07/17/15 04:00 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,845
Tampa
DusterDave
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,845
Tampa
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I'm a call-em as I see'em kind of person, so here goes.
[tough love] Kid, you don't have the car, you don't have the engine, and you probably aren't financially ready to buy anything for this dream of yours. We on this board have all had a dream of building a Mopar, and that's cool. But, why not at least hold off on the detailed EFI questions until you've at least bought the car, because by then, technology will have changed quite a bit, and who knows, Megasquirt might be out of business by the time you're ready to buy an EFI system. [/tough love]
Gone to the dark side with an LS3 powered '57 Chevy 210
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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: Spartan040]
#1872492
07/17/15 07:44 PM
07/17/15 07:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,817
Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,817
Wichita
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I absolutely LOVE the idea of fuel injection, however....
For a hobby car that see's limited use and runs really well 99% of the time, it really is hard to justify the costs.
I really don't want to half ass it with a throttle body type of injection, either.
Hopefully we'll see some price reduction in the next few years..
'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
9.92 @ 135mph with a 350 shot of nitrous and 93 octane pump. 1.43 60 ft. 3,750 lbs.
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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: 2011GrabberGT]
#1872528
07/17/15 08:39 PM
07/17/15 08:39 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 305
5th and plum
redmist
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 305
5th and plum
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The MS3X has ALL of the features listed above and is not even half of the cost of the MS3 Pro. The ONLY thing the Pro has on the 3 is it is fully assembled (you can get a MS3X assembled too for far less) and it is in a sealed case. I run MS3X and have more features and inputs/outputs than I can possibly utilize, and I am running dual wide bands, dual knock sensors, sequential fuel/spark, launch control, closed loop idle, a multitude of output LED's, tach output, fuel pressure sensor, oil pressure sensor, A/C control, and probably a few other things I cannot remember. And I still have unused channels! I'm also using it to talk to an MS2 based TCM via CAN for integrated shift control. Heck, they both even use the same software. So unless you need a water submersible super tough ECU for an off road vehicle, a V12 engine, or really like shiny boxes and have a lot of disposable income, there is no reason to get a Pro. A fully assembled MS3X starts at $660 minus the harness. If you want knock control and a harness add another $150. If you can solder, save yourself another couple hundred and assemble it yourself like I did. The MS3X and Pro both blow the Holley system out of the water with the ridiculous amount of features and flexibility they offer, but in all reality most people probably won't even be able to utilize half of it. If you want a basic port injection set up, you can even use an MS1 or MS2 with great results. Here's my write up with Megasquirt if anybody is interested.... http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=100689.45 Hey man... don't come in here with your facts and logic and screw this all up!!
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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: Bad340fish]
#1872534
07/17/15 08:46 PM
07/17/15 08:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 305
5th and plum
redmist
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 305
5th and plum
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I wanted the Holley stuff really bad, I fell in love with it when Roadkill did the engine swap and EFI conversion at PRI awhile back.
I quickly crapped my pants as I added up parts, I wanted room to grow so I wanted the top system. I think(summit) $1800 gets you the top ECU, then you have to add in cost for Different Harnesses etc. I cried a little bit and kind of forgot about it.
Then came Redmist with his MS3X build and it got my wheels turning. It wasn't long before I bought the MS3X kit and proceeded to assemble it myself. It was pretty fun and my son was just a few months old so I was always home and it was easy to work on during his many naps. It for sure took longer, and it was more work, but I had lots more time than I had money at the time(who ever has both?) and I really enjoyed building it. I'm just a Billy Bob back yard hack, but every so often I can put the round peg in the square hole and get it to look decent.  I will say... the MS3X will challenge you, and you WILL know EFI front to back over the folks that are running the plug and play stuff. Good times!
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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1885198
08/04/15 09:29 PM
08/04/15 09:29 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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I ordered a Spectra Performance CR9CFI Fuel tank with internal pump from Amazon ($366.02) to try out. I will post more info on this when I get it. Got the Fuel tank today. So far it looks pretty nice. Made In Canada. The Fuel Pump that it comes with is a Walbro GSS342, 255 lph pump which should be good for 500+ HP? There is a tub type baffle/sump in the tank that the pump sits in. I'll have to get some photos, but it looks like it should work. I had to disconnect the pump to get the assembly out of the tank, Everything (pump/fuel level) all go in together through a stock sender unit hole, so it is a tight fit getting everything in/out of the tank.
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