I am only going by the picture you posted...........that doesn't look like a standard Bosch type square connection. If it is, that's fine. The Holley injectors are nothing special, just standard Bosch, Siemens type.

For the OPs application, I would put together a Holley kit with an HP ECU

That's one gorgeous setup you got there! Parts list for your EFI?

You can read my entire thread on how I home built the system, from start to finish here: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,99432.0.html


It cost me way less than a Holley/FAST System HOWEVER! It took time... lots and lots of time. I am much more versed in EFI now because I built the system, and tuned it myself. I had no prior experience with EFI before doing this, but am decently mechanical.

Monte has a much more turn key solution that is packaged very nicely. But it will cost ya!!! Hell the fact he is here talking about it makes the support side of it look like a great deal.

You can have it CHEAP, FAST, QUALITY! Pick two!

Injectors, intakes, sensors, throttle bodies, pumps etc, cost what they cost, so that is a wash, with whichever system you buy, so that is a non factor.

Now, what the "system" costs you depends. The Mega-Squirt 3 with a DIY harness is about $1000 and with a custom harness is $1150 and comes with NO sensors. I can get you a Holley HP ECU and wiring "kit" that comes with ECU, a terminated plug and play harness, a Bosch o2 sensor, map sensor, coolant temp and IAT sensor included off the Holley web site right now for $1650 and I can likely beat that price. So to say that piecing a system together is WAY cheaper than a "boxed" kit is not entirely true.

Monte

What I see is that the MS3 EMS assembled and ready is $659 (including the MAP sensor), the complete harness is $79 + $79. That adds up to $817.
An Innovate MTX-l is a complete Lambda sensor system (can be used stand-alone) that connects to the MS3 EMS and the cost is $209.
Now we are at $1026.
What is missing is intake air temp sensor, engine temp sensor, crank sensor, cam sensor etc, but the cost for these is marginal IMHO.

Fine.......that's what you should buy then. The prices I got were straight from EFI Source web page who is a Mega-Squirt dealer. I didn't shop around because I have no intention of buying one. I quoted prices I found........you get them cheaper..........go for it

Thanks a million!

Seems to me after all this discussion that several parts of the EFI systems are now commodities. Some of you don't have any idea how cool that is. Others of us remember back, way back in the day when streetable fuel injection was one of those hopeless dreams, and people tried to get Hilborn systems to live on the street. Those few who actually did were considered magicians.

The concept of being able to measure air/fuel ratio in a moving vehicle, real-time, didn't exist except in the farthest out dreams. So we are living in a golden age.

To the guy who wants to start out an EFI project the question I'd ask is why are you doing it? It boils down to a "Journey or Destination" question. From what Monte is saying, there doesn't seem to be a big financial reason to go either way. So pick the approach that suits your head.

In my case projects always take six times as long as I estimate, so if I wanted the EFI system to work in my lifetime, I'd better get a system that's already assembled.

R.

Monte I would've went this route in a heartbeat if it would've been available about 6-8 sooner lol! MS3 was a bargain compared to anything else at the time. It does work good though.

Well, I've got an uncle with an auto shop who knows fuel injection better than carburetors (he mainly works on imports), so I've got his support if I need it, I'm sure we can get everything working swiftly. Finances aren't my main concern here. I'll also have access to the mechanic and machine shop on whatever air base I get sent to, since I will be joining the Air Force once I'm finished with college, I'm currently enrolled in ROTC.

Yes,

It is entirely true. All the junkyards here give sensors and wire for free. They know they might not work, so you can grab whatever you want for free. of course this can apply to the Holley setup as well... however!

MS3 PCB Kit $385
MS3X XPNDR $219
MS3 Harness $79
MS3X Harness $79

GM TPS FREE
GM IAT FREE
GM CLT FREE
GM MAP FREE
GM TPS FREE
CPS Sensor $30
Crank Sensor FREE
GM IAC FREE
All sensor pigtails FREE

Tuner Studio $20
(LS) Coils x8 $80
Trigger Wheel $25
Injectors x8 $328
LS Throttle body $120
Fuel rails $112
AEM A/F Wideband $150

$1627 for all the stuff above "Pieced" together and I am ahead of the Holley setup

with Coils, Injectors, Throttle body, fuel rails, Trigger wheel and sensors.

That is a big chunk of change that needs to be added to a Holley kit.


As "Hot rodding" in the modern sense becomes more popular, companies like Holley, Edelbrock, FAST and the likes will have to start dropping prices to compete. I think that is great!

There is also the issue of legally using this fuel-injected car on the street. Is a '70 Challenger a pre-pollution control vehicle? If I swap the engine that was previously in it for the 440, does it make it legal? I'm going by what I saw on Holley and Edelbrock's website

Dude, you live in Florida, land of no emissions inspections. You'll be fine. For years, I drove a '73 Duster with an 8-71 blown and twin Dominator'd 528 Hemi on the streets around Tampa, and I was never bothered by the fuzz.

Fair enough. I do intend to take this thing to other states on trips, but I will have it registered in Florida. Are the emissions control laws on a state-by-state basis? As far as I know, there are none in Florida pertaining to aftermarket modifications like I'm proposing to do.

Yes, emissions are up to the individual states. No testing in KS.

Sweet, thank God for being born in Florida (only time in my life I thought I'd say that).

Say I build the 440/512 stroker with flat top pistons, aluminum heads, the proper roller camshaft, 3.54 gears, TTI 2" Headers, windage tray, and the fuel injection system I'm talking about, all hooked up with a Gear Vendors 727 auto. About how much horsepower and foot pounds of torque could I expect? Anyone have any dyno results from a similar build?

NO, it's NOT true if you compare apples to apples. You want to go scrounge around for stuff that's fine, but you can't factor that into bottom line pricing for the average guy. Plus you priced a DIY "some assy required" ECU and are comparing it to a ready to install Holley box price. Yes sir, THAT is cheaper done that way. But if you compare the Mega-Squirt PRO, which is the ONLY box they have that even remotely compares to the Holley as far as function and capability......THAT box is over $1000. Same as the Holley........imagine that. So how about lets keep price comparisons in the same universe of the product you get for the money.
Just because YOU did it on the ultra cheap, with scrounged parts and some free parts for a lot less money than a "boxed" kit, lets not pretend you can get all the same features as the store bought kit for WAY less money, because it flat isn't true. Does your system do what YOU want it to do.......probably so, but will it do what everybody else wants to do....not likely. I am all about guys saving money and doing it themselves, where I have a problem is when you say the much cheaper unit will do anything the expensive one will.....because it WON'T. If it did, there would be no reason for the Mega-squirt PRO.

Based on these vague parameters........anywhere from 450-900hp.

You said it would be a couple years before you did this and you are obviously young. So between now and then, you need to do a lot of figuring out what exactly it is that you want and how to get there.

If you are comfortable doing everything yourself, it could be worthwhile to piece together a system, but it will take a long time. If you want to just drive your car and have a good support network, a boxed system (Holley, FAST etc.) would be the way to go.

If you were to put your own system together, I would suggest using as many stock sensors and parts as you can (as others have suggested). That way if you are stuck somewhere, parts will be easier to find. I used a ford EDIS ignition system from a 4.6L crown vic, ford MAF from a 460 van and all gm sensors on my build. I put together the air intake myself with parts from spectre and I think the filter was a spectre part too. I couldn't find a K+N that fit. I also used fuel rail stock from RMR racing that I machined myself.

Spend a lot of time researching and reading, best to hash out any issues you might have now before you buy anything.

I went the megasquirt route as well, but I am only 1/2 way done. The MS3X box is running the car but only the ignition side right now, but its running great full sequential coil on plug.

I don't have much money in the electronic side of things, less than $1000 for sure. The expensive part for me is the car side, new intake for EFI, new fuel system that can support a broad range of HP so I have room to grow. That is why I am running the ignition side right now and this winter after drag week doing the fuel side of things.

I built the box, built the harness(from a universal harness), did everything I could do myself, it wasn't terribly hard and I enjoyed it. Other than my ECU, and crank sensor I can get all of my electronic parts at the parts store which I am sure is true for lots of EFI venders.

If you are starting from scratch the intake cost, throttle body, etc are all stuff that doesn't cost anymore than carb stuff so its good.