I would like to have some kind of hot rod / toy car again. Unfortunately, my toy budget is small and my time is limited. So, what kind of vehicle would you guys suggest?

T buckets were a low cost option for building a hot rod years ago. Is this still true today? Anyone have an estimate on how long it might take to build a driver quality bucket?

It seems like Mopars from the 1950's are much more affordable than muscle era Mopars. Would one of these require less time and money than a T-bucket?

I would appreciate any advice you guys can offer on this subject. Are there any better choices?

Need more info, where are you located, how much do you plan on using the car? What are your skills in building/buying? Do you have a place to work on the car?


Pilot house pick ups are cheap and fun, but drive like an 1950s truck. A100 vans are affordable and pretty simple.

Buy someone's finished or almost finished car, there are lots of partially finished projects that you can "make your own" or save thousands of dollars and man hours buying one that is complete.

I have a cheap hot rod for sale, unfortunetly buyers are even cheaper or poorer. It is easier for most guys to throw a few hundred dollars at a project rather than spending the cash up front for a done car, but those projects although well intentioned,usually never get finished.

Speedway Motors has the T bucket dialed in, surf over there to get an idea about costs and such.

But I agree, it is usually cheaper to buy someone's unfinished project, at least up front, then you get to spend twice that fixing the hacks.

To answer the questions: I'm currently located in West Virginia. I'm not planning on driving this vehicle to much. It will primarily be a toy. On nice days, it could also serve as a back-up vehicle. I worked as a mechanic 25 years ago. Repairing older vehicles is rarely a problem. Garage: I'm looking for one to rent at the moment. I have access to an indoor storage / parking spot, but can not use that space as a work shop.

I have a 440 with a transmission and several rear axles. It is a nearly complete drive train. Would like to find some kind of vehicle in which to install these parts.

Budget: It is not set in concrete. I'd like to keep it in the $5,000 range if possible. If necessary, it could be stretched closer to $10,000. Edit: With a budget this small, the car will only be a mediocre driver quality car.

Time: I work, so this will be a week-end / evening deal. If someone is selling the right project car for the right price...that might be the best idea.

QUOTE" Edit: With a budget this small, the car will only be a mediocre driver quality car."


QuickDodge, I completely disagree with this, look at different types of cars and you will find the right car and be very proud of it, Volksrods get tons of attention and they have a hugh following plus super cheap to build and maintain.

I built my "Hot Rod" from a shell, on a small budget in less than 18 months.

Here is a link to my build so you can see there are options and you don't need deep pockets to have a show winning, great driver.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=506712

T buckets are not very comfortable and very small inside.
not a good choice in my opinion. and really overdone...

I tell people on a budget that a early truck is your best bang for the buck. unless you find a good deal on some sedan or coupe....

I built my Squattie fire truck for under $4K
a few years back.
like a $300 cab
homemade bed and fenders around $300
a $100 318 and trans
a $100 set of wheels
$200 worth of paint
and all my labor, came in way under $4K

finding a 30-38 cab is more costly than a 39-47 or 48-54 cab.
I like the 39-47 cabs, they fit nice on a Dakota chassis
I did mine on a $100 dodge D50 chassis
you could build it fender less and just put a grill shell out front, fender less looks better with some kind of axle
but you could still use a D50 front end to keep it cheap
(my son did that on his rat rod)

you already have the "RIGHT" engine to build a mopar rod with.
you just need to find a cheap start.
39-47 cabs can be found around $300-$1,000 pretty easy

here are a few pics to give you some ideas..


this was My squattie truck: 318/904, D50 chassis




this my sons low buck truck. less than $3K invested and on the road. 400 BB mopar in it.. also on a D50 chassis






My other son did this 40 dodge on a 1975 Ramcharger 4x4 chassis a few years ago.




another fender less old dodge




and full fendered..




and here is a old ford fender less truck for another idea...

Depending on where you live, I would think you could build a very dependable daily driver on the mid to upper end of your budget. Depending on your fabrication skills (welding, sheet metal, figuring things out), you might be on the road for something in the $3,000 -$4,000 range. It really depends on your expectations, the closer top perfect (or fast) you require, the more the cost escalates.

48-53 (especially the 51 & 52 model year) Dodge trucks are probably the easiest "old trucks" to find. They are pretty much every where. They had decent frames that could be updated, but the reality is, its probably cheaper to mount that old body on a newer frame. A Dakota chassis make great doners, they are plentiful, about the right size, can be had fairly cheap,(if you buy a running version, you have all the parts you need) and they will support the weight & power of your 440. Pay attention to the condition of the frame (rust out) between the trans crossmember and the front spring perches.
My coupe is on a Dakota frame. I have about $4,000 in it to be a dependable daily summer driver. Gene

Hey Gene and Ron, I love both of your vehicles!! Do you guys have a ball park idea on how many hours you spent building them? Any thoughts on how much longer it might take for a guy who has never performed a chassis swap?

What is the second truck that Ron posted? Is it a Dodge? What year? I REALLY like it!

Love the color combination on the Red and black truck too!


Edit: Gene, I remember the build thread on your car. You started with a very rough car!

can't say how many hours it took, as I jump around on to many projects, should just start and finish one at a time
but my brain doesn't work that way...
but a chassis swap is not to hard if your doing a truck.
just set the body on the newer frame and measure a few times till it looks right and weld up some body mounts and move on to engine and trans.

that black and red truck my son did was a 36 or 37 chevy cab we had around here that someone cut the roof off of years ago so my son mounted the cab and old bed we had onto a 85 dodge D50 chassis we had here too and put together a LO BUCK rod just for fun.
it was a fun fast rod.

we had the body,bed,frame, $50.00 engine and trans,side pipes,shifter and gas tank.
the only things he needed was to do a driveshaft and have the seats covered.


my son sold it to a guy and this is what it looks like now




This is my sons current truck now it was the 4x4 above, now on a dakota chassis



and this is my 35 dodge PU project
toyota frame with a 37 dodge wavy axle,
68 440/727
"B" body rear end with a 4 bar and coil; overs.

Built my 55 Dodge PU for $7000. It has AC, modern suspension, 5.7 Hemi, ect. You just need to look for the right deals, research the parts, take your time and build it.

Cost me $6000 to build this 46 Ford.

Quickdodge, yes, my car was very rough when I started. I bought the whole car for $200, the guy told me he could get $200 scrap, or he would sell it to me for the same price. It probably should have been scrapped....

When your building a hot rod, the hours tend to add up (or disappear) pretty quickly, especially when your scratching your head trying to figure out how to do something. I'm not really sure I want to know how many hours I have in some projects. Depending on how much modifications need to be done, how much time per week is available, and how nice you want your ride before you drive it, 1 1/2 to 2 years is a pretty short build time frame, 3 or 4 years is not outside a realistic build time. I have seen some very nice stuff built in a matter of months, but everything was present at the start, and many hours were invested.
$100,000 - $150,000 pro built cars represent parts & labor. If you assume $25,000-$30,000 in parts, the rest is labor at $100 or so $$ per hour. My math gives me 700- 1200 hours for the show quality with people that know what they are doing. For us average guys, learning as we go, those 700-1200 hours is probably a good estimate of the number of hours for good quality driver ride. 2 years, 7 1/2 hours per week = 720 hours, and $4,000 is a very cheap hot rod.

Trucks are generally easier because the older ones are all body mounted on frames. The steel brackets are bolted, riveted, or welded to the frame, and the cabs are attached to those brackets with rubber bushings with bolts going through the brackets, the rubber, and the cab floor. Once you remove the frame's original cab, you set the "new" cab on the frame, position it as you want it, and make or modify the steel brackets to locate the cab to the frame in the desired position. Often the older cabs need metal replaced in the floors. Several of the more modern cab floors & firewalls will adapt to the older cabs, it is sometimes easier to adapt the original to the frame cab floor to your old cab then it is to make new mounting brackets and replace floor pans, provided those floor pans are in good shape. Gene

I'd go in a completely different direction, an early '60s Valiant or Dart. I'd use a 5.9 Magnum for power.

R.

Considering that you haven't done a frame swap before, have limited work space and tight budget, this is what I'd do in that situation:

First, look at what is local and the rust/condition. Then check similar beginnings from further away if rust is common. 500 to 1K on shipping can save that and more in rust repair unless you do it yourself.

Some candidates:

74-78 Dodge PU with the 440 swapped in. These can often be bought under 2K, with the rest spent on safety and swap parts. A quick paint job and recover the bench seat or buy a pair of buckets.
http://www.jcwhitney.com/smittybilt-front-low-back-bucket-seats-for-jeeps/p3091021.jcwx
You should be able to pull this off in a year or less easy, and you don't see them out much any more. Extra points for a nice lowering. Both the engine swap and the lowering have threads here on Moparts. Bonus with IFS and disc brakes without swapping.

If inspections are not a concern (safety/smog), try to find a later model

1. that will take a small block swap. D50/Arrow pickups would be a good bet and could start as a sleeper and if needed, progress to a tubbed pro-street mini truck. Trade your stuff for Small block stuff.
2. a RWD car from the 80s with your big block swapped in. Sleeper 5th Ave. or an Imperial with NASCAR style (done by a member here years back). Again, stuff like suspension, brakes and steering do not need replacement, just possible repair.


The last one requires more space than you have, but can provide great results, but need more labor and time - take two and make one.
This is where you get a running donor (Dakota or Ram V8) and a body in decent shape in the style you like. This is the basis of Poorboy's car and Ron's trucks. You will need some good skills and space to pull this off. The budget will only work if you can sell off every unused part.

Up through the 50s, the 6V positive ground will cause a lot of hidden expense, unless you are willing to rewire, upgrade the brakes and do the full drivetrain swap. Flathead-only cars (30s thru early 50s) have intrusive steering columns, making small block swaps much more feasible. Your big block can fit in mid to late 50s cars that had V8s.
The early trucks are simple, but if you are going to use 440 torque and HP, you need to consider upgraded brakes and at least fully rebuilding the stock suspension and steering. Upgrades there will make it much more pleasant and manageable.

The most important thing is to find the project that really sparks your interest long-term, because if you settle for something that is just the best you could find or is not really what you wanted, there will be a time when you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel and that spark is the only thing that keeps you from closing the door and walking away.


EDIT
If you could live with a rough car (take a look at Stu's thread HERE ), you could buy THIS , make it solid and safe (brakes/steering) and toss your parts in. Paint it up like the Roadkill Charger or Petty Blue with big 43 on the side. Think field rescued ex-race car.

ROADKILL


EDIT 2
some examples here in AZ

D50 $1000

75 PU WITH 440 $1000

74 400 PU $1900

34 cab for the D50 like Ron's $1400

what exactly is your budget ? as many have already stated, it probably will be money and time ahead to buy somebody's almost completed[?] deal for pennies on the dollar and make it your own. BUT, how much skill,tools, and space do you have ? and PLEASE be honest, especially with YOURSELF ! this will make you happiest in the long run. and if what you want requires a bigger budget, you just have to save a bit more, or a little while longer.i have, over the years, helped many friends on their projects. some have taken just this advice and have been very happy at the end. one other friend took this advice on his first project[ 1970 super bee equipped exactly like his first one he bought new ] and was extremely happy at the end, and enjoys it tremendously even today, 20 something years later.[he is currently in carlisle, and this car has been a multiple award winner over the years]. on his second project, a 72 duster however, he did not. he "thought" he could buy a $3500 "rust free" arizona shell and do it himself. i STRONGLY advized against this because he JUST DOESN"T possess the talent or tools to complete this sort of project. with this being said,[and a TON of my time and effort as well as the same from others he has had to PAY for their services] 7 years later, it is complete, buy HUGELY over budget, and i have to RE-DO some of the electrical and mechanical issues. then, a couple of years ago, he and his wife decided they would like a "street rodded" 57 dodge panel truck. i sat them both down, and FIRMLY told them the ONLY way i would become involved in any project like this is IF THEY BOUGHT ONE ALMOST TOTALY COMPLETED ! it would be time and dollars ahead for them AND me, because of his LACK OF SKILLS AND EQUIPMENT. i also told them [firmly] the value of such a vehicle completed, and that was well within their projected budget. and to add icing on [my] cake, a perfect example was found at carlisle last year for slightly UNDER their projected budget TOTALLY FINISHED as well as totally mopar powered. they both looked it over and fell in love, only to be disappointed because they waited in making their decision and it sold. just my experience. i'm not trying to influence you, just being realistic.

i forgot to add this. THE ONLY TIME you should go against my advice would be IF your best vehicle that would make you the happiest is something that is VERY RARE. and i am the PERFECT example ! my project is a 1933 dodge "humpback" panel. i have been working on this since 1973-76. it came from a swamp in south carolina, and knowing what i now know, should probably have BEEN LEFT THERE ! the vision i had at that time has been kept [almost] the same, but i have had to virtually fab almost 80% of this vehicle. time and health [MS] has taken their toll on me, as well as me not possessing the ability to say "NO" to friends and their numerous ongoing projects. my toy is a very long way to completion, and i hope to last long enough to at least take this thing around the block. several on this board have seen pics of this and know some of the numerous items i have fabbed over the years, and with this project, stuffing 15lbs. of "stuff" in a 3lb. sack is an under statement. i wish you well in your quest. just think it over very thoroughly before you make your decision, and truly do a project that you really want and will make you happy, not just something that is "cheap" to buy into.

Wow!!! You guys have given a lot of great advice! I appreciate it!!

A truck is probably the best choice. Interestingly, my father made the very same suggestion. His rational was to have a newer, economical car for normal driving and a truck for hauling stuff and for fun. In thinking about this longer term, I would like to take an early retirement in 10 years...so having fewer vehicles at that point would be wise. Having fewer vehicles means having vehicles which can fill more roles.

Poorboy, Thanks for the time estimate. I was afraid a project like your coupe would take a considerable amount of time. Having never tackled a project of that scope, I could not even guess how long it might take. Your car is really cool! Unfortunately, it is not practical for me to take on such a long term project currently. It could easily take 5+ years to find 700 to 1000 hours of spare time! I would almost certainly give up before finishing such a long term project.

Moparrx, Your point of selecting a vehicle that brings happiness is an excellent point. It is a point that I have often ignored! My dream vehicle would be a 69 Charger. Unless the collector car market changes dramatically, I will not be building one of these on a $5,000 to $10,000 budget. This is why other alternatives are being considered. Obviously, the alternative must be liked though.

It would be real nice to have an older V8 powered vehicle that has a mild rumble to it. A mechanically simple vehicle that is repairable with hand tools. A vehicle that can provide a bit of driving excitement and pleasure.

RodStRace, There are annual safety inspections here currently. There has been talk of implementing smog inspections due to the poor air quality. It is also entirely possible I will be moved to another state. (Job transfer) So an older vehicle would definitely be preferred to avoid potential smog hassles in the future. This is why I was thinking of a pre-smog era vehicle. Were the heavy duty 1/2 ton trucks of the 1970's smog exempt?

In thinking about this, a truck suitable for a "rolling restoration" would likely be the best choice. In other words, a usable truck that can be upgraded / refurbished one system at a time over a number of years. That way it is never taken apart for a long period of time.

Did Dodge publish tow ratings for their 1950's trucks? Do the insurance companies which offer insurance for modified vehicles cover or allow towing a utility trailer or another car?

Insurance companies are a thorn in our side. Specialty companies will cover your ride for whatever reasonable value you determine (many will require an appraisal for any thing over about $10,000). But they won't cover its use as a daily driver, and many have annual mileage limits. They are usually reasonably priced. Covering a modified vehicle will depend on how its been modified.

Normal car insurance will cover you for up to a specified amount under a "classic coverage", but be sure you get "an agreed coverage amount". A stated amount doesn't mean squat, they will give to what they think its worth if it gets wrecked (which won't be anywhere near what you thought you had it covered for). Most of those will not allow daily driving, and they really don't like modifications from original.

The only option that allows for daily driving is your normal insurance, but full coverage on an old car or truck is a waste of money, they won't pay out much based on its value compared to other cars of its age, compared to the value of a new car. Normal insurance companies don't like old cars & trucks, there are not enough "safety" features, and they can't charge you enough to get rich.

I carry only liability insurance on my coupe. If it gets wrecked, drag it home and I will rebuild it as I can.

50s trucks were rated for the job at hand, 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, 1 ton and on, up to semi tractors. The designated rating was literal, a 1 ton had the capacity to haul/or pull a 2,000 lbs load, however modifications could be made to add additional load, within reason. I believe you had to get in to the 60s before load rating no longer reflected the actual payload capacity. Gene

Glad you came back and replied. So many lately have posted questions and not engaged the replies...

The trucks of the fifties were almost all flatheads, do some searching for BB swaps to see what's involved.

Another avenue to explore is ex race cars, preferably rollers since you have an engine/trans. They are usually pennies on the dollar for what you get, and redoing interior and some other things would probably be on your list anyway.

It's not your dream charger, but how about a 68 Roadrunner
http://www.racingjunk.com/Complete-Race-Cars/182520161/68-Plymouth-roadrunner-.html (SOLD, but a good example)

66 coronet with serious rear tires for a grand
http://www.racingjunk.com/Door-Cars/182522265/1966-coronet.html




http://www.racingjunk.com/Complete-Race-Cars/182480041/1974-Plymouth-Duster.html



http://www.racingjunk.com/Complete-Race-Cars/182475132/coronet-dodge-reduced-price.html



and if you want a Dakota donor
http://www.racingjunk.com/Complete-Race-Cars/182523240/87-dodge-Dakota-FS-FT.html