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Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
#1867495
07/10/15 12:10 AM
07/10/15 12:10 AM
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 163
Florida
Spartan040
OP
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 163
Florida
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I'm currently planning and pricing out a 1970 Dodge Challenger pro touring / resto mod build, and I'm planning on using a 440/512 stroker, I want it to be fuel injected. I'm really looking to buy a pre-built system, like an Edelbrock Pro Flo XT or something like it. I believe that system has an airflow of 1000 or 1100 CFM, and is available with 44 lb/hour injectors, rating it up to 650 horsepower. That's just about my goal for this build, somewhere between 600-650. My question is, do any of you have any experience with this system? Was it hard to install, how did you like it, what cold air intake system did you use, is it reliable and easy to tune, is there anything that would work better? Any necessary modifications? If I want more horsepower in future, can I get bigger injectors, or even a bigger throttle body for more air flow?
Also, what fuel tank, pump and lines should I use for a fuel injection system like this?
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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: Spartan040]
#1867574
07/10/15 03:31 AM
07/10/15 03:31 AM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 553
Sac, CA, USA
ntstlgl1970
mopar
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mopar
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 553
Sac, CA, USA
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Make sure the XT will fit under the hood of your car. The throttle body is based off a GM LS manifold, but I don't think the manifold opening is setup for anything larger than 90mm out of the box so if you wanted to go to a 105mm or something the manifold may require porting. I had an XT w/90mm throttle body on my 440 running megasquirt and I was really happy with it. I have no experience with the edelbrock controller so I cant speak to that. I agree with ahy, the in tank fuel pump is the way to go. I used to have a ton of issues using an external pump with a stock tank with an add on sump. the in tank pump was the cure to all my fuel supply problems.
Last edited by ntstlgl1970; 07/10/15 03:35 AM.
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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: Spartan040]
#1867613
07/10/15 09:54 AM
07/10/15 09:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
ahy
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master
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
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Does that system require an air cleaner sitting on top of it? What attracted me to the Pro Flo XT is it didn't need that and it's set up for cold air The system uses a 4 bbl throttle body with the same bolt pattern as a Holly carb... just shorter. Conventional air cleaner. I used a 14"x3" open Edelbrock mild drop base air cleaner. It all fits (just) under a flat Challenger hood. Cool air would be nice and thinking of adding it. It can be done but more involved vs the setup you are looking at.
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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: Spartan040]
#1867641
07/10/15 11:20 AM
07/10/15 11:20 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I run the Holley multipoint system.. I didnt bother to install the pump in the tank(which I could have) but I ended up double isolating it externally ... its a self learning system which is nice... it runs a 1000cfm 4 bbl throttle plate.. all the things come with it except 2 things(since they dont know how much HP you have(.. but the pump and the injectors need to be ordered).. I have mine set up... I drilled my intake for the injectors.. I did that stuff for Chrysler for years in the fuel lab... there is pros and cons with putting the pump in tank... keeps it cooler and can keep the noise down but in MOST cases its harder to get it out and in MOST cases you have to build a custom tank... for my self I dont have any problems building tanks(did that for Chrysler also) 
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 07/10/15 07:06 PM.
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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: ntstlgl1970]
#1867747
07/10/15 02:44 PM
07/10/15 02:44 PM
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 163
Florida
Spartan040
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 163
Florida
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Make sure the XT will fit under the hood of your car. The throttle body is based off a GM LS manifold, but I don't think the manifold opening is setup for anything larger than 90mm out of the box so if you wanted to go to a 105mm or something the manifold may require porting. I had an XT w/90mm throttle body on my 440 running megasquirt and I was really happy with it. I have no experience with the edelbrock controller so I cant speak to that. I agree with ahy, the in tank fuel pump is the way to go. I used to have a ton of issues using an external pump with a stock tank with an add on sump. the in tank pump was the cure to all my fuel supply problems. That looks good, what injectors do you have? 44 lb/hour? Also, what air intake is that? K&N? I'd really appreciate the part # for the hose and filter.
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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: ntstlgl1970]
#1867748
07/10/15 02:48 PM
07/10/15 02:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,942
Metro Detroit
OUTLAWD
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,942
Metro Detroit
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Make sure the XT will fit under the hood of your car. The throttle body is based off a GM LS manifold, but I don't think the manifold opening is setup for anything larger than 90mm out of the box so if you wanted to go to a 105mm or something the manifold may require porting. I had an XT w/90mm throttle body on my 440 running megasquirt and I was really happy with it. I have no experience with the edelbrock controller so I cant speak to that. I agree with ahy, the in tank fuel pump is the way to go. I used to have a ton of issues using an external pump with a stock tank with an add on sump. the in tank pump was the cure to all my fuel supply problems. A real clean setup you have there. I was hesitant to consider DIS, because I didn't like the coils on the valve cover. Care to share any info on how you got it sorted with the DIS, cam/crank signals, etc? Thanks!
Faster, Faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...
71 Swinger - slowly collecting dust/parts
66 Belv. II - just a streetcar
88 Mustang - turbo LS beater
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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: OUTLAWD]
#1867757
07/10/15 03:08 PM
07/10/15 03:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 803
Idabel,Oklahoma
Gary Robbins
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 803
Idabel,Oklahoma
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I'm thinking about trying this...600hp or 1200hp systems...nice fuel command system and available for power adders also !! Also a nice clean install !! http://www.fitechefi.com/
Last edited by Gary Robbins; 07/10/15 03:09 PM.
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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: Spartan040]
#1868068
07/11/15 01:58 AM
07/11/15 01:58 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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I installed the Edelbrock Xt EFI on my 505" stroker (0.030" over 440 with 4.25" crank), and it works good. I chose it because I wanted something that would fit under a stock hood of my Coronet. This was my first EFI setup to use, and I used the complete Edelbrock XT system.
If you plan to go this route, don't get the entire Edelbrock XT system, just get the intake and fuel rails, then get the best prices on the injectors, pressure regulator, throttle body, and sensors (all GM stuff.) The controller is outdated and very limited as it will not control cooling fans or A/C clutch (and A/C idle.)
I am upgrading my computer system to the FAST XFI 2.0 with data logging, and using the FAST dual sync dist. This controller also has the adaptive learning and wide band O2 sensor, and has a ton more features, but is expensive. The new mega squirt MS3 also has most of theses features at a lower price.
You will need a long lokar throttle cable with the EFI end to connect to the throttle body. There are a few places making EFI tanks with internal pumps which is likely the easy and clean way to setup the fuel system. I like the Tanks Inc setup with the separate sending unit and pump, but the one for the '68-70 B-Body is still not avaliable yet, so I ordered a Spectra Performance CR9CFI Fuel tank with internal pump from Amazon ($366.02) to try out. I will post more info on this when I get it. I really want to use my Walbro TIA485-2 450LPH E-85 fuel pump ($140 from Amazon) with a flex-fuel sensor that the FAST computer reads to know how much alcohol is in the fuel, then the the computer will correct the air/fuel mixture.
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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1868074
07/11/15 02:27 AM
07/11/15 02:27 AM
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 163
Florida
Spartan040
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 163
Florida
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I installed the Edelbrock Xt EFI on my 505" stroker (0.030" over 440 with 4.25" crank), and it works good. I chose it because I wanted something that would fit under a stock hood of my Coronet. This was my first EFI setup to use, and I used the complete Edelbrock XT system.
If you plan to go this route, don't get the entire Edelbrock XT system, just get the intake and fuel rails, then get the best prices on the injectors, pressure regulator, throttle body, and sensors (all GM stuff.) The controller is outdated and very limited as it will not control cooling fans or A/C clutch (and A/C idle.)
I am upgrading my computer system to the FAST XFI 2.0 with data logging, and using the FAST dual sync dist. This controller also has the adaptive learning and wide band O2 sensor, and has a ton more features, but is expensive. The new mega squirt MS3 also has most of theses features at a lower price.
You will need a long lokar throttle cable with the EFI end to connect to the throttle body. There are a few places making EFI tanks with internal pumps which is likely the easy and clean way to setup the fuel system. I like the Tanks Inc setup with the separate sending unit and pump, but the one for the '68-70 B-Body is still not avaliable yet, so I ordered a Spectra Performance CR9CFI Fuel tank with internal pump from Amazon ($366.02) to try out. I will post more info on this when I get it. I really want to use my Walbro TIA485-2 450LPH E-85 fuel pump ($140 from Amazon) with a flex-fuel sensor that the FAST computer reads to know how much alcohol is in the fuel, then the the computer will correct the air/fuel mixture.
Thanks for the info, could you include the parts list for the injectors (Bosch has 3 types, GDI, PFI and HPP, which do I use?), pressure regulator, throttle body and sensors? Also, I really like the sound of a Megasquirt 3 with MS3X, is it compatible with the Pro Flo? How does it compare FAST XFI 2.0? Is the MS3-Pro able to sense the alcohol and correct the mixture like the FAST can? Is that E85 pump compatible with 93 octane? Also, is a fuel sump system required or recommended for EFI?
Last edited by Spartan040; 07/11/15 01:11 PM.
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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: Spartan040]
#1868248
07/11/15 02:58 PM
07/11/15 02:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,766
Hot Rod Ridge
FastmOp
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,766
Hot Rod Ridge
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You can do flex fuel with the megasquart, it's a sensor from what I understand.
I really like the intake, anyone know what the cost is for just the intake and rails?
Racepartsolutions.com is a good place to check out for all your fuel injection needs.
Injector needs are based on horse power expected, then your ECU has to be compatible for the ohm rating of the injector. And then the harness has to be able to plug into the injector. Most ECU'S have the ability to fire hi and low ohm injectors but it's something you check.
Last edited by FastmOp; 07/11/15 03:05 PM.
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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: FastmOp]
#1868250
07/11/15 03:01 PM
07/11/15 03:01 PM
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 163
Florida
Spartan040
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OP
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Florida
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You can do flex fuel with the megasquart, it's a sensor from what I understand.
I really like the intake, anyone know what the cost is for just the intake and rails?
Racepartsolutions.com is a good place to check out for all your fuel injection needs. Cool, and I believe it's about $700 for just the intake and rails from Summit
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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: Spartan040]
#1868267
07/11/15 03:42 PM
07/11/15 03:42 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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the manifold is a pretty nice casting. the plain finish #7144 looks to be $468 from just about all the places (Summit Jegs, ect.) The black coated manifold is $526. The Fuel rails #3644 are $126. I forgot to mention you need a 90 degree thermostat housing to clear the throttle body. The Edelbrock Injectors (44 lbs/hr) are #3684 and cost $465/set of 8, but you may be able to use other brands at a lesser cost. The connector style is not much of an issue if using an aftermarket controller and wiring harness. The injectors just need to be the same height so the fuel rails tighten down to the intake correctly. The whole "kit" is over $4400 from most places. Race-Mart lists it for $4,183. I actually got my kit from Race-Mart for under $4K a few years ago. It was the best price I have found, but like I mentioned, the controller could be better. You can upgrade to the XT plus controller and wiring harness, but I think that is another $500. You can see that it costs less to piece the system together and use a Mega Squirt or other controller to get the additional features. Here is the link to Edelbrocks instructions for the EFI. Page 36 lists all the part numbers of the sensors. http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/misc/tech-center/install/3000/3545.pdfThe throttle body is around $400 (90 mm, 1,100 cfm) It looks to have the TPS sensor but not the IAC? The flex fuel sensor I am using is for a Cadillac SRX it is 3/8" fuel line size. I got it off E-Bay for around $50. Here is one I just looked up: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Free-Shipping-Fl...7-/251926953867Yes, they are shipped from China so it will take a week or more to get the part.
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Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: Spartan040]
#1868815
07/12/15 03:12 PM
07/12/15 03:12 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,417
Chicago, IL
blownEFI
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,417
Chicago, IL
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There is a lot of stuff required to "piece together" your own custom efi system, which is exactly why the pre-built kit systems are so popular because they save you all that trouble. Fortunately there is a lot of info on the web to help you, just do some searches like "how to convert to efi" and you will find many articles such as these: Fuel Injection Conversion Part 1 Fuel Injection Conversion Part 2 Fuel Injection Conversion Part 3 I didn't read those particular articles but I'm just listing them as examples of what you can find when you search. There are many others, you just have to do some searches and you will find the info is out there.
"These go to eleven", Nigel Tufnel
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